New PC - some advices

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AndreaDraco
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New PC - some advices

Post by AndreaDraco » Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:49 am

Hi folks! ;)

I'm about to change my current machine in order to move on to a more powerful PC. I did some research and I came up with the following:

- Windows 7 Professional 32b
- Intel Quad Core 2.66 GHz
- 4 GB RAM
- ATI Radeon 4850 (x2)
- 1 TB Hard-Disk

My questions/doubts:

1. Having the processor at 2.93 GHz (x4) is really useful/better?
2. The GPU: what is the very best around?

Thanks!
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Re: New PC - some advices

Post by DeadPoolX » Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:27 pm

Operating System
You'll need the 64-bit version of Windows 7 in order to make use of 4GB of RAM. 32-bit operating systems only recognize up to 2GB of RAM, therefore the extra two you're looking at would be wasted.

CPU
I'm not sure why you're asking about 2.93GHz when your list states 2.66GHz. Regardless, nearly all computers are dual or quad core. I don't think dual or quad core make much of a difference in games. You'll see games that list dual core as a requirement, but as I said, practically all CPUs today are dual or quad core. Listing a single core might confuse consumers.

Where dual or quad core make a real difference is within the OS itself and using different applications. The more programs you have running (especially those in the background, like virus scanners and software firewalls) the more the CPU has to do. In a dual or quad core processor, the tasks become more evenly divided so more can be done at once without a drop in performance.

As an aside, it's really difficult to find a single core processor. My computer has a single core processor, but I got it in 2004. The CPU is 3.2GHz and even though it's single core, it has Hyper-Threading which emulates a dual core to some degree. I also have 2GB of RAM and a 512MB ATI Radeon 3870 (the computer originally had a 256MG Radeon X800 XT). Where my machine is really lacking is that it only has a 250GB hard drive, but I could replace that if I wanted to. I'm simply too lazy to do it and I've never managed to fill it up, so why bother? :P

GPU
It's hard to tell which is the best video card. Statistics on paper may differ from actual performance. Plus there are many other variables involved.

It looks like you're going for a Crossfire setup (dual ATI video cards) which is really good. Unless you're getting two 1GB video cards, I'd say you're better off getting one 1GB card, as opposed to two 512MB cards.

There's a huge (and ongoing) fight between ATI and NVIDIA fanboys. Unfortunately, it's not that simple. Each video card is different, no matter who made it. There are also many variants of the same card. It's nearly impossible to state which company is "the best."

Having said that, the general consensus is that NVIDIA makes faster cards, while ATI has more stable cards. Some people might disagree with me, but in my experience, NVIDIA cards have always been more temperamental. In other words, they seem to have more issues (Maia's video card was an NVIDIA GeForce 8800GT and it fried itself, requiring her to get a replacement) and updating drivers on an NVIDIA card has been more difficult, as well.

Once again, some people will disagree with me. They'll say that "NVIDIA video cards are super-stable and updating drivers is a cinch!" Well, good for you if that's your experience, but I haven't been so lucky.

I've used ATI video cards for a while, not because these cards are necessarily the fastest (although speed once again depends on which card you're talking about), but due to the overall stability. ATI cards seem easier to update drivers on and new drivers come out about every month.

For the most part, the differences between ATI and NVIDIA cards is minimal. Maia has an NIVIDIA card and I have an ATI card, but they're about equal in performance. Some games work better with her card and some with mine, although it's hard to spot this unless you're testing the frame rate. Simply by looking at the game and judging how it plays, we seem to have the same, or at least similar, experience.
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Re: New PC - some advices

Post by Collector » Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:32 pm

There are a number of Intel CPUs, some better than others. Speed and number of cores have less to do with performance than does which line of CPU. Currently, the I7s are running circles around everything else. As DPX said, a quad core will not do much fro games. Even a dual core will not help a single application unless it is a multi threaded application, which few consumer applications are, while programs like professional graphics/video editing programs usually are, but only dual threaded. In other words, multi cores will only help individual programs that are written to use them and then only two cores will be used. Only server or enterprise level programs might use more, but then usually not just multi core, but multi CPU machines and possibly in clusters. The advantage of multi cores comes in multi tasking, or running several simultaneous programs. Personally, I would save the money and spend it on the fastest dual core I7 that I could afford.

The single most important factor in how stable a system will be is the motherboard's chipset, especially the Northbridge. I always go with an Intel chipset for an Intel CPU and an AMD chipset for an AMD CPU. Other brands can lead to misery. Since I am not currently in the market, I have not been keeping on top of which one is the best, googling should give you an idea. Also don't cheap out on the power supply. Stay with a name brand and one that is big enough for all of your hardware.

Professional Windows 7 is a good choice, as you will get XP mode with it. I would strongly recommend that you go with 64-bit, though. You can access more than 4GB of memory with 32-bit, but through PAE, which is much slower than the direct addressing you will get with 64-bit. 64-bit Windows is newer code and has less legacy overhead than 32-bit. It has a smaller memory foot print and is less of a resource hog than 32-bit. Most people find 64-bit systems to be both faster and more stable , too. This has been the case since XP 64. The down side is that you will not be able to run 16-bit programs natively. This is not really that big of a deal with DOSBox, especially if you have a copy of Win3x to install in it. The only things that you might have trouble with are the 32-bit games that shipped with 16-bit installers (these games can be manually installed) and the Windows only 16-bit Windows 95 games that don't work very well in 3x. These games will need an emulator to run. An emulator may also be required for these games on 32-bit Windows, as well, for compatibility issues.

Do not get less than 2 GB of RAM, but I would plan on getting 4 GB to start. You may not need more, but try to get 2 GB sticks so you won't need to dump your old RAM if you later want to add more.

Preferences in graphics cards are more subjective than the other hardware. Many consider the ATI is the way to go for lower end cards and nVIDIA for mid to high end. Personally, I've had issues with both. Others here that play more modern games than I do may be able to give you more input here.
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Re: New PC - some advices

Post by AndreaDraco » Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:36 pm

Initially I thought about Windows 7 64 bit too, but the clerk at the store told me that with this version many games, even relatively new, won't run. Just to know, how many years are we speaking about? I won't be able to run games ten-year old or even games released a couple of years ago? This machine will serve me only for gaming purposes, since I've already have this one and the laptop for work, so my primary concern is to be able to run many games, past and present -- of course I know that the old, old games (Sierra catalog, for example) will need an emulator, and I've no problem with that, but it would be sad if some newer games - like Jade Empire for example - couldn't run on the new machine.
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Re: New PC - some advices

Post by DeadPoolX » Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:20 pm

I can't imagine W7 would make games like Jade Empire (which was released in 2007 for Windows) completely unplayable. It's only 2009 now and although it'll be 2010 soon, a game from 2007 isn't considered old.

I really don't know a whole lot about Windows 7. Maybe Collector knows more since he's had a 64-bit OS.
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Re: New PC - some advices

Post by Collector » Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:03 pm

AndreaDraco wrote:Initially I thought about Windows 7 64 bit too, but the clerk at the store told me that with this version many games, even relatively new, won't run. Just to know, how many years are we speaking about? I won't be able to run games ten-year old or even games released a couple of years ago? This machine will serve me only for gaming purposes, since I've already have this one and the laptop for work, so my primary concern is to be able to run many games, past and present -- of course I know that the old, old games (Sierra catalog, for example) will need an emulator, and I've no problem with that, but it would be sad if some newer games - like Jade Empire for example - couldn't run on the new machine.
He is full of it. Out side of the exceptions that I mentioned, that is 16-bit Windows 95 only games (of which there are very few. By far, most are 32-bit) there are few that will have a problem with 64-bit. Remember, it has been quite a while, more than a decade, since any 16 Windows games have been made. Windows 7 64 will handle any 32-bit game as well as 32-bit Windows 7. I encounter more incompatibilities on my Vista 64 due to Vista itself than I do because of bit depth. If you are that concerned about backwards compatibility, you are better off setting up a dual boot with XP, or better yet, an old machine with 98.
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Re: New PC - some advices

Post by AndreaDraco » Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:48 am

OK, I've finally ordered the new PC, which will arrive next Friday. Here it is:

Windows 7 64bit
Intel Core i7 Quad-Core 2.66GHz
2x4GB RAM DDR2 Reg Kingston
Ati Radeon HD 5870 1GB
1TB Hard Disk Maxtor 32MB Cache
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Re: New PC - some advices

Post by DeadPoolX » Thu Nov 26, 2009 11:57 am

This may not be too important, but for some reason, I incorrectly listed my CPU speed. I said it was 3.2 GHz when it's really 3.6 GHz.
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Re: New PC - some advices

Post by Maiandra » Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:25 pm

Awesome, Andrea! That will be so exciting to have a new computer.
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Re: New PC - some advices

Post by Collector » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:26 pm

Nice. Sounds like something that you will be very happy with for quite a while.
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