Mass Effect 3 Script Change - After Leak.

[AndreaDraco]

When I mentioned the lack of choices and consequences, I was obviously referring to the final segment of the game. DPX is right: there are quests early on where your actions can have an impact on later developments. Alas, it's also true that these developments in the end... do not count at all, since the final sequence (after Anders bombs the Chantry, to be clear), after a tense if a bit lackluster third act, takes a frustratingly straight-forward path.

Really, before the finale I actually liked DA2 a lot and was eager to see how my allegiance would play out in the game. After the seeing the disaster that happens as soon as Hakwe enters the Gallows, my personal score dropped from the 90s to the low 80s, perhaps even to the 70s. I mean, what the heck is the point in making a game that is all about choosing between Templars and Mages if, in the end, the player's choice doesn't matter at all?. Terrible, really.

[DeadPoolX]

The real problem is that DA2 was solely designed as a bridge between DAO and DA3. That meant there had to be a solid ending, one which wasn't up to the choice of the player.

The ending narration does differ slightly depending on which side you take. If you choose to help the Templars, Hawke becomes the new ruler and his friends can stay in Kirkwall; if he sides with the Mages, he and his friends are told to leave and are on the run. Unfortunately, neither choice has a major effect, probably because the game is over by then.

In some ways, it almost seems like Anders was the main character. The story depended more heavily on him and what he did. His actions will have a much greater effect on DA3 than anything Hawke did.

That said, I still think the overall story and characterization was better in DA2. The gameplay was better (when finally patched) because the combat actually felt active and interesting. DA2 also made the Warrior and Rogue fun to play, whereas they seemed "okay" at best in DAO. The best class to play in DAO was, without a doubt, the Mage.

[AndreaDraco]

It's true. Anders is the real protagonist of the game and you're right, it is a nice change of pace from the usual RPGs where the player character is the hero around whom every other character gravitates. And you're certainly right about the characterization of the companions, who were really well fleshed-out.

However, I still disagree about the ending. Let's be specific: that Orsino turns in an abomination wheter you chose to support the Mages or not is an horrible choice from a storytelling perspective, especially if the player also experiences the other side of the final quest. The fact that the two branches are virtually the same, apart from some flavor text during the final cutscene, is, in my opinion, a terrible mistake.

I also disagree about the combat. Sure, it was more active and frantic. But the seemingly endless waves of enemies popping out of thin air were dreadful to see and to play through. It could be an interesting surprise every now and then, but to have every single combat play out this way is just boring, in my opinion.

I know that many of you don't like The Elder Scrolls series, but, in this regard, Skyrim is just state-of-the-art. Every single dungeon is carefully designed and planned and the enemies, all of which display a great AI, are strategically placed in the various location. Exploring these places, aside from the visuals, which are just stunning, is a wonderful experience because you really feel like the game is tailored to your playing style, whatever it is. In DA2, unfortunately, the combat is always the same, whether you're a Warrior or a Mage.

[Tawmis]

However, I still disagree about the ending. Let's be specific: that Orsino turns in an abomination wheter you chose to support the Mages or not is an horrible choice from a storytelling perspective, especially if the player also experiences the other side of the final quest. The fact that the two branches are virtually the same, apart from some flavor text during the final cutscene, is, in my opinion, a terrible mistake.

See, this is very true for me as well. I mean, the replay is null for me because of this final moment. Because I would have liked to have seen, what happened, depending on the side I picked, and having it be different. To me, this was, perhaps literally a game breaker for me. It's like watching this great, intense movie, and then the character wakes up, and you learn it was all a dream. All of it felt... for nothing, in the end. When it really, really mattered.

I also disagree about the combat. Sure, it was more active and frantic. But the seemingly endless waves of enemies popping out of thin air were dreadful to see and to play through. It could be an interesting surprise every now and then, but to have every single combat play out this way is just boring, in my opinion.

Agreed, while DAO you got random encounters while traveling around; the way the people just appeared out of thin air, in the city, was borderline annoying, because they were coming wave after wave; just appearing. Where as in DAO, you could always see where they were on the random encounters. Or even in the caves. DA2, they just seemed to appear, with a few exceptions.

I know that many of you don't like The Elder Scrolls series, but, in this regard, Skyrim is just state-of-the-art. Every single dungeon is carefully designed and planned and the enemies, all of which display a great AI, are strategically placed in the various location. Exploring these places, aside from the visuals, which are just stunning, is a wonderful experience because you really feel like the game is tailored to your playing style, whatever it is. In DA2, unfortunately, the combat is always the same, whether you're a Warrior or a Mage.

[/quote]

Heh. With Skyrim, two negatives. 1. I absolutely HATED Oblivion. Like. Really. Hated. It.
I know people say it's nothing like it; and I have examined video of game play; and it looks a lot like it to me.
Just can't chance spending that much for a game, that the previously one I strongly disliked as much as I did.
Second, don't think my PC could handle it.
Though, I think it's available for X360, which is where I'd play it.
You know, when it's on sale for like 10 dollars.

[Maiandra]

A little late here, but I'll put in my .02 anyway.

I tend to share DPX's view on DA2 for many of the same reasons, so I won't repeat all that. I've found that I like epic fantasy less and less over time, so it was nice to see a more personal story. Another reason I liked the DA2 story more is because I felt that the treatment of mages in THAT story was how it should have been in DA:O.

Before DA:O came out, they were talking about how the world was going to be lower magic, how there were going to be consequences for being a mage, and that people would respond more realistically to someone with that kind of power, (i.e. not just stand around going "look at the pretty spells" when someone took over their brain) etc. DA:O didn't really make good on any of that and I thought DA2 did.

It was far more intellectually interesting to me to watch the controversy around the mages than to save the world from a unimaginable evil...AGAIN. [Actually, since I'm playing DX:HR right now, I can see some similarity between the controversy there around augmentation and DA2's controversy over mages, both of which I find fascinatingly realistic and insightful.]

As for the end of DA2, I don't think the mages ending bothered me as much as it did some. I think that was because of what Orsino says before he turns to blood magic. He was desperate and he felt like individual mages would never be given a chance, regardless of what they did. When he says "Why don't they just drown us as infants? Why wait? Why give us the illusion of hope?" he sounded so hopeless that I felt sympathetic. I didn't see his actions as him intentionally turning against Hawke. Instead I saw it as a big, final "f*ck You!" to the Templars, with probably no thought about Hawke either way.

I really liked and respected Orsino up to that point, so I was extremely disappointed by his actions (and a little annoyed at him screwing us over like that). I wished that the ending could have been different, but in some ways, I couldn't blame him. He had just been pushed and pushed and PUSHED to that point. No matter what he did, they would never see that it wasn't the magic, but the person that was bad. So yeah, I kind of understood his "f*ck You!". I didn't agree that it was the best thing to do, but I could understand it.

[AndreaDraco]

Totally Off-Topic for DPX and Maia: I'm thinking of getting Deus Ex 3 for my boyfriend. Is knowledge of the previous games necessary to play the game?

[DeadPoolX]

Totally Off-Topic for DPX and Maia: I'm thinking of getting Deus Ex 3 for my boyfriend. Is knowledge of the previous games necessary to play the game?

No, you could play Deus Ex: Human Revolution (DX3 or DX:HR) without any prior knowledge of Deus Ex (DX1 or simply DX) and Deus Ex: Invisible War (DX2 or DX:IW).

There are, however, some references to characters, information, ideas, etc, that either make an appearance or have some significance in DX and DX:IW. None of that is integral to the story, but if you've played DX and DX:IW, you'll obviously "get it" and appreciate it.

Before buying the game, you should know that Steam activation is required, regardless of where you purchase it. That means your boyfriend will need a Steam account, if he doesn't already have one.

DX:HR also uses Steam Cloud to house your saved games. This means you don't have to worry about manually backing them up as Steam Cloud synchronizes your saves to your account when you exit the game (in fact, I don't think you can manually back up your saved games). The major benefit to this is you'll always have your saves available, even if you have to format your machine or get a new PC.

The one requirement for Steam Cloud to work, however, is that you need to remain in online mode through Steam. If you play in offline mode, your saves won't synchronize and therefore won't be backed up. You also won't see any achievements if you play offline (once you start the game in online mode, you'll receive any achievements you've acquired).

So to make a long story short:
1. No, you don't need prior knowledge of DX or DX:IW to play DX:HR.
2. You need Steam to play the game.
3. Your save games will only be backed up through Steam Cloud if you play in online mode.

[AndreaDraco]

Thanks DPX!

There is no problem about Steam, since my boyfriend has it and likes it and usually keeps it in online mode

I'm glad you don't need to have played DX and DX2 in order to understand this game. I wouldn't know where to find them! Anyway, since the premise sounds so fascinating and the bits of gameplay I've seen seem challenging and entertaining, I think I'll get this one for him for Christmas!

[DeadPoolX]

I'm glad you don't need to have played DX and DX2 in order to understand this game. I wouldn't know where to find them!

You can get both DX and DX:IW on Steam in this collection or individually.

If you did decide to buy those, make sure to grab the high-res texture pack for DX:IW. There's a similar texture pack for DX, but I'm not entirely sure if it's finished. Even if there is one, the models themselves are still very blocky, so it wouldn't help all that much.

BTW, I don't know if you realize this, but DX:HR is a prequel to DX. Obviously, DX:IW is the sequel to DX. So chronologically the order is: DX:HR, DX, and then DX:IW. The release order, however, was DX, DX:IW and then DX:HR.

Just letting you know that if you were going to choose a game to play without having played the other ones, DX:HR is the one to do it. It relies far less on the other two than DX:IW does on DX, for instance.

Oh and I'd recommend waiting to buy these games until Steam's holiday sale. It usually runs for a week (sometimes more) where they have huge sales on different games. I'm sure you could easily find all three of these games marked 50% off or so if you wait a couple of weeks.

[AndreaDraco]

Thanks DPX, much appreciated.

[Maiandra]

I haven't finished DX:HR yet, but I already think it's a really, really good game. It allows a great deal of flexibility in play style, it has a great story, and fascinating settings. I would highly recommend it to anyone who enjoys a near-future setting and a good story.

[DeadPoolX]

Andrea, Deus Ex: Human Revolution is on sale now (as part of the Steam holiday sale) at 33% off for $33.49 USD. Since the sale doesn't end until January 2, I'd suggest waiting to see if Steam puts DX:HR up on a one-day sale before the new year. If they do, it'll be even less expensive.

[AndreaDraco]

Thanks DPX!

I'll wait a couple more days.