Manannan keeps killing me

[Rakeesh]

Note: The following is a request for a hint, therefore it is to be read only by people who have finished KQIII. If you haven't finished the game, it might contain spoilers for you. So there is no reason to have spoiler tags. You have been warned

Ok, I have finished KQ3 long ago, but now I am doing a serious playthrough, trying to look at the walkthru as little as possible (but it is so frustrating that no way i could finish it without one).

Now, Manannan left, I went to the town, got the money, got all the ingredients and made this cat-cookie. I closed the hatch, hid the wand in his cabinet, hid all the magic items, and waited for him.

Then whenever he comes he just says 'you up to no good... never again will you discover my secrets' and kills me, with no explanation.

I don't understand. The first time he killed me it was because I hid his wand. Now I put it in its place and took care as to no leave any 'traces'; but again, he kills me.

Right now I wonder if I should 'crumble the cookie in porridge' AFTER he comes.

[envisge0ne]

Did you slide the book back that revealed the lever that opens the trapdoor? Also make sure you don't have anything in your inventory with a * next to it.

[Tawmis]

I'll see if you did what was suggested above...

I just wanted to add, Manannan made KQIII unbearable. The entire fiasco of getting rid of him is entirely too complex. Manannan is the main reason I dislike KQIII. Everything else about it is great, but Manannan is a HUGE negative. I even remember doing the "teleport" trick - and teleported to an area completely impossible to get to without getting rid of Manannan - and the damn bastard still "poofs" and says, "You've been bad!" And ZAP! End game.

[Rakeesh]

Note: the following post (all of it) is a commentary on some of the KQIII puzzles and their philosophy. No reason to make the whole post invisible

Did you slide the book back that revealed the lever that opens the trapdoor? Also make sure you don't have anything in your inventory with a * next to it.

Yup, that was it! I feel an idiot now! Cheers to you

@Tawmis
I second that. There is totally no hint on how you are supposed to get rid of him. Making the cat-cookie is one. Go to the bear-house and find the medium to serve the cookie, is another

What I hate in such adventures are puzzles which rely on random factors and repetition. For example, it was obvious to me that I must catch the cat, but when I tried, I was told that the cat evades me. Then I was wondering if I should trap the cat, or make him sleep. When you see a message that you couldn't perform an action, there is no reason to try repeating it. Right? Nothing tells you that this is not a puzzle but a random thing.

And then, there was the bandit home. When you get there and see the bandit, the first thing that you look for is a means to fight or avoid him, or perhaps neutralize him while in the tavern. But no, this is not a puzzle either. Just repeat until he sleeps at random!!

Cheap challenges and poor writing, which justify the use of a hintbook IMHO

[Maxor127]

Manannan is the reason I like it. There's a real sense of danger. I never really had a problem with KQ3. I think the hardest part for me to figure out was to stick my hand in the tree hole to access the hideout.

[Rakeesh]

I think the hardest part for me to figure out was to stick my hand in the tree hole to access the hideout.

That too. I knew what I should do. I tried 'put hand in hole' but nooooooo! It was a guess-the-verb situation.

Made me start looking for a light source.

[Tawmis]

Manannan is the reason I like it. There's a real sense of danger. I never really had a problem with KQ3. I think the hardest part for me to figure out was to stick my hand in the tree hole to access the hideout.

King's Quest (until around 7) always had a sense of danger. I was constantly hitting "SAVE" when I initially played the games, because I never knew what the next screen over was going to bring me. But Manannan - is too much of a pain. It needs to be a little more clear on how to get rid of him. I don't mind the task being difficult (like you have to do a bunch of things to get rid of him) - but a little more guidance in the game to make it more obvious would be helpful. I never, ever, ever knew to hide the things under the bed. I kept dying when I originally played it; until I finally broke down and got the hint book (back before the days of the internets!)

[oberonqa]

I think the hardest part for me to figure out was to stick my hand in the tree hole to access the hideout.

That too. I knew what I should do. I tried 'put hand in hole' but nooooooo! It was a guess-the-verb situation.

Made me start looking for a light source.

Not sure how that particular puzzle is a guess-the-verb situation... especially since all you had to do was 'look at hole in tree' to get a rather point-blank description of what was inside the hole.

KQ3's puzzles are rather logical, provided you keep in mind you are playing the role of a wizard's slave. The whole sub-quest of dealing with Manannan plays directly into the whole "slave trying to escape his master" motiff. A disgruntled slave would do things that he/she knows is bad... but would cover his/her tracks to ensure he/she wasn't discovered. This is the role you are supposed to play.

You are given very clear boundaries and very clear directions on where you are allowed to go and what you are allowed to do (which is never leave the house and do absolutely nothing except your chores). Being the disgruntled slave (or just a bored kid who misbehaves when the parents aren't around if you prefer), your going to poke around and do things your not supposed to do. When you go poking around, you make sure you don't disturb anything and leave no evidence of your activity. And you obviously don't keep anything around that can link you to any wrong-doing... that stuff must be hidden.

And let's not forget the biggest pointer the game gives you... the spell book/instruction manual (if your playing KQ3 and not KQ3VGA). It was a very common practice back in those days to inject game hints and pointers into the game documentation. Heck... even the choice of screenshots on the back of a game box can serve as hints (most notably would be the screenshot of the Pegasus on the KQ2 box). In fact, there's articles in InterAction that I have found and converted into wiki format on my website that specifically mention looking at the screenshots on the box as a method of finding hints to some of a Sierra game's more devious puzzles.

In KQ3, the instruction book includes the spells you need to cast and serves the purpose of pointer and copy protection. The spell ingredients and preparation instructions are practically a mini hint book all on their own when it comes to tracking down the ingredients and how to use the spells.

On the whole, the game is rather straightforward... at least no more or less difficult than any other Sierra adventure game of the time. You want difficult or obtuse? Give Manhunter or Codename: Iceman a try.

[Tawmis]

KQ3's puzzles are rather logical, provided you keep in mind you are playing the role of a wizard's slave. The whole sub-quest of dealing with Manannan plays directly into the whole "slave trying to escape his master" motiff. A disgruntled slave would do things that he/she knows is bad... but would cover his/her tracks to ensure he/she wasn't discovered. This is the role you are supposed to play.

And you obviously don't keep anything around that can link you to any wrong-doing... that stuff must be hidden.

Yes, that's the logical thing - in hindsight. But when it came out in 1986 (I was 16 when it came out, yeegads!)... When you had played previous KQ games, where you're shoving tridents in your pocket and no one notices (LSL2, makes fun of this idea of being able to shove anything in your pants by shoving the super sized Big Gulp into your pocket!) - the last thing I was used to in any King's Quest game was getting RID of an item BEFORE I am needing to use it. KQ3 veered far off from that idea, that you'd toss something (even for a minute!) to use it later.

So when I played KQ3, I was under the assumption I'd get everything I need, and it'd just be in my inventory. Just like previous KQ games, and just like previous Sierra games.

I admit, in hindsight, many years later, I thought hiding the items that might make that bastard wizard suspicious was an ingenious move - because it had done something other Sierra games hadn't.

But, even as I play again - that damn wizard is STILL a problem for me. And I have played KQ3 a number of times (I actually love the game - other than the wizard!) Because despite the numbers of times I have played it; I still can't remember HOW to get rid of the Wizard. (I mean I remember HOW, but all the steps it takes to get rid of him; and the game doesn't really offer much in terms of logically being able to figure it out).

On the whole, the game is rather straightforward... at least no more or less difficult than any other Sierra adventure game of the time. You want difficult or obtuse? Give Manhunter or Codename: Iceman a try.

Strangely beat both MANHUNTER games, with no hint books. (They were difficult... but finally got through them - even way back then!) CODENAME: ICEMAN, is probably the only Sierra game I own that I have never beaten (from back then - I have picked up things like THEXTER and such that I have not beaten) - but I am talking about games I bought WHEN they came out. To this day, I remain stuck at diving to 600 feet (I believe it is) under the cold front, so the subs can't detect me - and yet they still sink me. It amazes me how difficult they made CODENAME: ICEMAN.

[Rakeesh]

That too. I knew what I should do. I tried 'put hand in hole' but nooooooo! It was a guess-the-verb situation.

Made me start looking for a light source.

Not sure how that particular puzzle is a guess-the-verb situation... especially since all you had to do was 'look at hole in tree' to get a rather point-blank description of what was inside the hole.
[/quote]
Nope, it was not that simple. First of all, 'look at/in hole' simply says that it's too dark to see. You must type 'reach into hole'

Secondly, the hole was too small to be noticeable, quite unlike the huge tree-holes and trunks of Daventry and Kolyma in the first games.

[DeadPoolX]

What I hate in such adventures are puzzles which rely on random factors and repetition. For example, it was obvious to me that I must catch the cat, but when I tried, I was told that the cat evades me. Then I was wondering if I should trap the cat, or make him sleep. When you see a message that you couldn't perform an action, there is no reason to try repeating it. Right? Nothing tells you that this is not a puzzle but a random thing.

And then, there was the bandit home. When you get there and see the bandit, the first thing that you look for is a means to fight or avoid him, or perhaps neutralize him while in the tavern. But no, this is not a puzzle either. Just repeat until he sleeps at random!!

Cheap challenges and poor writing, which justify the use of a hintbook IMHO

The words "adventure game" and "logic" rarely go hand-in-hand. Even games set in a real world environment often have convoluted puzzles. That's one of the reasons I eventually got turned off the Adventure genre. While I certainly don't hate Adventure games, they're not my first choice and haven't been in years.

King's Quest (until around 7) always had a sense of danger. I was constantly hitting "SAVE" when I initially played the games, because I never knew what the next screen over was going to bring me.

Ironic considering you now like save points.

But when it came out in 1986 (I was 16 when it came out, yeegads!)...

Heh. For most of 1986, I was six years old.

[AndreaDraco]

But when it came out in 1986 (I was 16 when it came out, yeegads!)...

Heh. For most of 1986, I was six years old.

I was three

Anyway, I'm amongst the ones that simply adore Manannan. Sure it was hard as hell, and incredibly unforgiving, but it was a lot of fun. And the cat was wonderful... then again, I'm a well-known cat-lover

[Tawmis]

King's Quest (until around 7) always had a sense of danger. I was constantly hitting "SAVE" when I initially played the games, because I never knew what the next screen over was going to bring me.

Ironic considering you now like save points.

It's not that I like or hate save points. I think it all depends on the game. Save points in a game like King's Quest, would be silly; because the game's so wide open. But 'tunneled' games (as I call them where it's not free roaming world type), save points can work. For example, 'Marvel Ultimate Alliance' (both of them) have save point system. Which is fine with me. But in a game like KQ (or any Sierra game from back then) wouldn't work. (Although the Auto Save was nice!)

[dotkel50]

I could be any of your mothers.

[Tawmis]

I could be any of your mothers.

Yeah but you'd be a hot mom! Rawr!