Installing Sierra games

[Collector]

I also broke down a couple of days ago and purchased the 2006 repack of the Leisure Suit Larry Collection on Amazon. I was trying to hold off so I could get either the Collection Series edition or the Ultimate Pleasure Pack... but I got a hankering to play them.

I still need to get a copy of the Quest for Glory Anthology... but that will need to wait until I am working again. Of all the "Collections", that one is the most expensive and it's really hard to justify spending $50+ USD for it... at least right now.

It would probably be cheaper to get standalone copies of the QfG games than either the QfG Collection Series or the Anthology. The collection usually goes for less than the Anthology.

Don't forget to apply the DOSBox patch after you install your 2006 LSL Collection. Also, do not install it in a system folder like %ProgramFiles% or you run into problems.

[oberonqa]

It would probably be cheaper to get standalone copies of the QfG games than either the QfG Collection Series or the Anthology. The collection usually goes for less than the Anthology.

Don't forget to apply the DOSBox patch after you install your 2006 LSL Collection. Also, do not install it in a system folder like %ProgramFiles% or you run into problems.

Thanks for the advice on the LSL Collection installation. I didn't think I would need any of the patches, since I've been able to play through all of the PQ, SQ, and KQ games in DOSBox without any issues.

I keep my classic games in C:\Games and I use D-Fend Reloaded as my front-end (yea I'm addicted to my classic games). As for DOSBox, I use a custom .71 that has MT-32 emulation built into it... and I managed to get the MUNT driver installed on Vista so I have MT-32 emulation on Device 1.

As for the QFG series... it's not one I'm in any hurry to pick up... and I'd rather get the Anthology (it'd be a great centerpiece to my slowly growing collection) than the individual games. Of course, at some point I will end up getting the individual games... but that will come in time once I can afford to start seriously collecting games (though I have a LONG LONG way to go before my collection is anywhere as respectable or complete as yours or Rudy's!)

[Collector]

If you have Munt installed, you have no need of such an old version of DOSBox. You are always best off with the latest official release of DOSBox. True, if you have need of certain features that are not built into the official version, you will need to use one of the unofficial builds. Even so, you should at least use the latest build with the feature that you need.

That said, you have no need of D-Fend Reloaded for the Sierra games. Not only does the SHP installers make it easier to set the games up than does D-Fend Reloaded, they also fully patch and optimally configure the games. For some games none of the DOSBox frontends will help you set the games up. Though rarely will the installs fail, you might encounter a number of errors with some of the installers. Certain helper files that some of the installers use do not function quite properly within DOSBox, like WHAT.EXE. The later DOS games do more than just copy files to the HDD. They have to concatenate and expand the resources in addition to configuring the games. Keep in mind that often the default settings are not optimal for the hardware that the DOSBox emulation has to offer. The defaults are chosen for the lowest common denominator, such as AdLib music when the game supports GM.

While the SHP installers were designed for the novice user, many advanced users take advantage of them because of their convenience. Even Qbix and GOG has used them. They are especially handy when setting up a new PC and you want to install your Sierra collection on it.

[oberonqa]

If you have Munt installed, you have no need of such an old version of DOSBox. You are always best off with the latest official release of DOSBox. True, if you have need of certain features that are not built into the official version, you will need to use one of the unofficial builds. Even so, you should at least use the latest build with the feature that you need.

That said, you have no need of D-Fend Reloaded for the Sierra games. Not only does the SHP installers make it easier to set the games up than does D-Fend Reloaded, they also fully patch and optimally configure the games. For some games none of the DOSBox frontends will help you set the games up. Though rarely will the installs fail, you might encounter a number of errors with some of the installers. Certain helper files that some of the installers use do not function quite properly within DOSBox, like WHAT.EXE. The later DOS games do more than just copy files to the HDD. They have to concatenate and expand the resources in addition to configuring the games. Keep in mind that often the default settings are not optimal for the hardware that the DOSBox emulation has to offer. The defaults are chosen for the lowest common denominator, such as AdLib music when the game supports GM.

While the SHP installers were designed for the novice user, many advanced users take advantage of them because of their convenience. Even Qbix and GOG has used them. They are especially handy when setting up a new PC and you want to install your Sierra collection on it.

The installers are great... most definitely. But I have yet to need them for running the older DOS-based games. I'm more inclined to use an installer for the FMV-games like Phantasmagoria or Beast Within, or RAMA for example. But for the majority of DOS-based games, I'm fluent enough with the workings of DOS, DOSBox, and of Sierra games in particular to get a very playable experience by hand.

As for D-Fend Reloaded, I like using it because it gives me a nice easy to use list, and it gives me easy access to all of the settings I need to fiddle around with. As for the Adlib setting you used, I have yet to be stuck with Adlib music if I didn't specifically want it. I don't even use Sierra's INSTALL.EXE anymore. I just go right in and edit the RESOURCE.CFG file by hand. Like I said, I've been able to play all the Police Quest, Space Quest, and King's Quest games flawlessly without having to use any installer or patch. The one and only time I've had to use an installer for an older-DOS based game that wasn't FMV-based was Quest for Glory IV... and that was only to apply the timer fix.

The specialty files and installation methods you mention are specific to Sierra's later titles that make use of VESA drivers. Space Quest 6 comes immediately to mind as a title that uses WHAT.EXE. I had no problem with this. Sure it takes a little fiddling.... but it's not something that is insurmountable for anyone with more than a basic understanding of how things work.

Here is a copy of my RESOURCE.CFG file for Space Quest III, which I edited by hand (no use of INSTALL.EXE):

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
videoDrv = EGA320.DRV
soundDrv = MT32.DRV
joyDrv = NO
kbdDrv = IBMKBD.DRV
mouseDrv = STDMOUSE.DRV
memoryDrv = ARM.DRV
mode = real
minHunk = 206K
directory = .\SQ3
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Believe it or not, editing the RESOURCE.CFG file is just as easy as using INSTALL.EXE. Games come with a default RESOURCE.CFG, which covers all the standard bases.... from there it's just a simple matter of changing the individual drivers to what you want. Of course, this is something I know you know, just pointing it out so as to dispel any ideas that I'm not familiar with what I'm doing.

As for DOSBox version, I believe in the old saying... if it isn't broke, don't fix it. The newest version of DOSBox (.74) does not support MT-32 emulation to my knowledge and I was never able to get MUNT to properly work through .74. No matter what I did, I still ended up with GM music for games that I had configured to use MT-32 (the difference is very noticeable in the early Sierra games that used MT-32). With .71, I get MT-32 emulation that is pretty good and I have yet to run across a single game (and I have quite a few) that does not play perfectly.

To give you an example, here is a copy of my dosbox.conf file for Space Quest III:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
# This DOSBox configuration file was automatically created by D-Fend Reloaded.
# Changes made to this file will NOT be transfered to D-Rend Reloaded profiles list.
# D-Fend Reloaded will delete this file from temp directory on program close.

# Config file for profile "Space Quest III: The Pirates of Pestulon"

[sdl]
fullscreen=true
fulldouble=true
fullresolution=1366x768
windowresolution=original
output=ddraw
autolock=false
sensitivity=100
waitonerror=true
usescancodes=true
priority=higher,normal
mapperfile=C:\Users\David\D-Fend Reloaded\mapper.map

[DOSBox]
machine=svga_s3
captures=C:\Users\David\D-Fend Reloaded\Capture\Space Quest III The Pirates of Pestulon\
memsize=32

[render]
frameskip=0
aspect=false
scaler=hq3x

[cpu]
core=auto
cputype=auto
cycles=fixed 10000
cycleup=500
cycledown=20

[mixer]
nosound=false
rate=44100
blocksize=2048
prebuffer=10

[midi]
mpu401=intelligent
mididevice=alsa
midiconfig=1

[sblaster]
sbtype=sb16
sbbase=220
irq=7
dma=1
hdma=5
sbmixer=true
oplmode=auto
oplrate=44100
oplemu=default

[gus]
gus=true
gusrate=22050
gusbase=240
gusirq=5
gusdma=1
ultradir=C:\ULTRASND

[speaker]
pcspeaker=true
pcrate=44100
tandy=auto
tandyrate=44100
disney=true

[dos]
xms=false
ems=false
umb=true
keyboardlayout=US

[joystick]
joysticktype=none
timed=true
autofire=false
swap34=false
buttonwrap=false

[serial]
serial1=dummy
serial2=dummy
serial3=disabled
serial4=disabled

[autoexec]
@echo off
SET PATH=Z:\
keyb US 437
mount C "C:\Users\David\D-FEND~1\VIRTUA~1\"
mount D "C:\GAMES\SQ3\"
D:
cd\
Z:\config.com -securemode > nul
SCIV.EXE
exit

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With this configuration, I was able to play through Space Quest III from beginning to end with zero problems and with MT-32 music (as opposed to Adlib or Sound Blaster). Most of these settings are applied by D-Fend Reloaded, but I have tweaked the cpu, graphics, and midi sections accordingly. Specifically, I set a maximum cycle rate in the cpu section, I set a full screen resolution of 1366x768 with my output done via DirectDraw and HQ3X scaling (these settings are due to me playing on a Vizio 32" LCD... and the scaling is a matter of personal preference), and of course, the midi section is self-evident. On my computer, I have two midi devices available through DOSBox:

Device 0: Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth
Device 1: MT-32 Synth Emulator

Since I prefer using MT-32 Emulation, I set the device id to 1. I find better audio results with alsa for some reason... less audio pop.

I keep a copy of DOSBox .74 on my computer, on the off-chance I need it.... but so far I haven't needed it. .71 has worked well and has not given me any problems.

All that said, I love your installers... I really do. I just don't find myself needing them all that often. Truthfully, I can name off the installers I've had to use:

Phantasmagoria
The Beast Within
GK3: Blood of the Sacred, Blood of the Damned
King's Quest: Mask of Eternity
RAMA

RAMA, Phantas and TBW are FMV games that have very specific installation methods... installers are the preferred way of getting them installed properly. Once they are installed, it's an easy matter to modify their RESOURCE.CFG files by hand. GK3 and MoE are Windows-native and as such, their factory installers don't necessarily play nice with Vista. Neither can be played via DOSBox and the use of an installer is simply to facilitate an installation that results in a playable game.

[Collector]

Your mountings indicate that you are using Windows, but you say you are using ALSA. Are you using D-Fend Reloaded via WINE? If so, I would suggest that you try DOSBox Game Launcher instead, which is multi platform. Another advantage is that the dosbox.conf generated only contain your settings that vary from the defaults. This allows you to see only your changes when troubleshooting. It also is less likely that you will have issues with upgrading DOSBox when the config file changes.

You need to select Munt as the host's MIDI device to work with the standard DOSBox. His build is a Windows build, but ykhwong has one based on the current developmental code instead of such old code as the one that you are using. He also working on the Munt code. You can find it here:

http://vogons.zetafleet.com/viewtopic.php?t=26833

The point that the Sierra installers start to do more than just copying files to the hard drive and writing a RESOURCE.CFG is with the beginning of the SCI1 games, where the resources where split and compressed across multiple disks. As I also said, the SHP installers apply all relevant patches, both official and fan made, some of which are not generally available otherwise. The settings they use are well researched, based not just on what look/sounds the best, but what will avoid issues, like unpatched speed bugs, save bugs, etc.

Extras include high res icons, a custom DOSBox config tool for changing DOSBox preferences and a diagnostic tool. Each installer is a complete solution for its targeted game. If you have not used many, please give them a try before dismissing them out of hand.

[oberonqa]

As far as Alsa goes, like I said, I don't understand why it works better.... but it does. I don't use Linux.... I use Vista. There's no reason for Alsa mode to work better.... but all of the other settings result in a variable audio pop that is most distracting.

As I have said already said, I like the installers... but only use them when I need them. I don't easily dismiss them... I just don't need them on a regular basis. I honestly don't even see the point in an installer for the 2006 Space Quest Collection, for example. All you need to do is copy the folders SQ1VGA, SQ2, SQ3, SQ4, SQ5, and SQ6 from the CD to a folder on your hard drive (such as C:\Games)... then right click on the folder, select Properties, then uncheck the Read Only checkbox. Then configure the games and go from there.

None of the Space Quest games needed a timer fix to be played on my computer (which uses a Phenom II X4 955 quad-core processor). In fact, the only Sierra game I have encountered that has needed a timer fix is Quest for Glory 4. Maybe I'm just lucky.

But again, I don't need the installers usually. There are exceptions... and when I encounter a game that is particularly difficult to set up **coughRama**, I have no problem using an installer. My point is the installers are tools... nothing more. And like any other tool, it's up to the end user to decide when to use the tool and when not to.

As far as D-Fend Reloaded.. the main reason I like using it is because it gives me a nice list of the games I have installed. I can sort by company or release year (I keep my list sorted by release year). Each game also has box-art screenshots provided by MobyGames (which D-Fend fetches with the click of a button) and I have the front box-art for each game set as the "default" screenshot for the game. My list of games is set to display their "default" screenshot, so instead of a text list that is sorted by release year, I have rows of game boxes that are sorted by release year.

It's a matter of personal preference and nothing more.

[Tawmis]

In fact, the only Sierra game I have encountered that has needed a timer fix is Quest for Glory 4. Maybe I'm just lucky.

Uh, yes. You're lucky. Or not played KQ6.

[oberonqa]

In fact, the only Sierra game I have encountered that has needed a timer fix is Quest for Glory 4. Maybe I'm just lucky.

Uh, yes. You're lucky. Or not played KQ6.

I've played through KQ6 on both DOSBox (DOS version) and ScummVM (Windows version). No timer issues.

[Collector]

The only installer for the 2006 collections are the ones that ship with the CDs. You need to use those because the games are packed in an Install Shield CAB file. What is on SHP for the 2006 collections are patches to fix the many, many problems with them, including missing files. The config files are hard coded into the launcher and are incompatible with modern DOSBox. Many of the problems they have are because the old DOSBox.

[oberonqa]

Here's a screenshot of my ScummVM load game screen for the Windows version of KQ6, which I recently finished playing:

Collector... I'm not going to use an installer unless I need one... I'm sorry. You have put a lot of work into those installers and I can understand wanting to get everyone to use them... but they are not necessarily all the time. The games are not hard-coded to use a specific configuration file. If you use the Vivendi-supplied launcher, then yes... your using the factory configuration settings... but you are not locked into that. You can use your own DOSBox configuration files at any time... you just have to not use the Vivendi-supplied launcher.

[Collector]

As I said, there are many problems wiht the VU collections:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=657

[Tawmis]

Collector... I'm not going to use an installer unless I need one... I'm sorry.
You have put a lot of work into those installers and I can understand wanting to get everyone to use them... but they are not necessarily all the time.

I don't get it... I don't think he's saying you HAVE to. If you know how to configure DOSBox and everything... or have had luck with the regular game installers that come out of the package! Awesome. But for whatever reason, a lot of people aren't so fortunate. For them, that's why the installers are here.

For some things... the installers that Collector has provided, not only get around issues that several people encounter; but there's also installers that will copy the data directly to the drive, so that CDROM isn't needed, which is a very nice benefit. This way I can install all of my games, put them away again in their bins, and play them whether I am on a trip or at home, or whatever the case may be.

I work in IT, so I know "tech stuff." But the installers that Collector has provided, for me, have made my life easier in playing these Sierra games.

They're certainly not needed for everyone - and we don't demand or want anyone to use them if they don't need them. But if you do - they're here. If you don't, then there's no worries.

[oberonqa]

Oh I'll agree the VU Collections are not without their fair share of problems.... but the big ones (buggy DOSBox and mis-configured conf files) can be easily bypassed by not using the included launcher.

All of the games in the 2006 KQ Collection (which I also own) are playable and beatable on 32-bit Vista. That firecracker bug in KQ7 is definitely a dealstopper if your using 64-bit Vista/Win7... in which case using an installer would be not only ideal... it would be the only way to play KQ7. But none of the other games in the KQ Collection suffer from dealstopper issues.

The moral of the story here is: DON'T USE THE INCLUDED LAUNCHER.

As for the issue you have with KQ6 not being able to display the opening movie due to having a graphic driver that cannot handle the movie, see the attached screenshots I took with FRAPS of the DOS version (which is factory... no driver replacement)...

And Tawmis... that's exactly what I'm getting at. The installers are great tools and I applaud Collector's work at making them. For a great many people, the installers are the only way to get a lot of these classic games to work. But there is more than one way to get the games to work.

Their convenience and utility is not debatable. Rather, Collector and I are discussing their applicability and scope. Being a classic gamer, one has to have a pretty vast array of tools at their disposal. A wise individual knows when to use the appropriate tool to accomplish his/her goal. The installers are just tools in the ever-growing toolbox.

EDIT: And as I said previously, when it comes to the FMV games that Sierra made (such as Phantasmagoria and The Beast Within), using an installer is the way to go. In those situations, it's ideal to use an installer so you can copy the entire game to your hard drive and then, if you were so inclined, burn the game to a DVD and then use said DVD to play the game with a minimal installation, which decreases size footprint. I'm not adverse to using installers... but like I said... it's a matter of knowing what tool to use and when.

I wonder how long I can keep this toolbox analogy rolling. **lol**

[Tawmis]

And Tawni... that's exactly what I'm getting at.

....

Did you just call me Tawni???

[oberonqa]

And Tawni... that's exactly what I'm getting at.

....

Did you just call me Tawni???

Gah your right! I'm sorry Tawmis! I was tying and typing and my fingers did their own thing. I'll edit that right now. Sorry about that!