SHP Forums

http://www.industrygamers.com/news/mass ... fter-leak/

BioWare’s upcoming Mass Effect 3 recently saw its script released early, prompting fans of the series to glimpse at what the developers behind one of the biggest games of 2010 were working on. Unfortunately, fans seemed none too pleased at the script and made sure BioWare was aware of their dissatisfaction.

"In the big picture, some more stories are generated around it and more interest in the game," Muzyka said, according to Eurogamer. "We're really proud with how it's shaping up. It's going to be the best Mass Effect yet.

"It's hard to say something like that having a positive benefit, but if it gets more people to check out Mass Effect 3 that would be a positive benefit, and I think they should, because I think it's a great game."

The script was leaked online after a Russian source mined the current build of the game. In it are some rather profound aspects of the game, storylines that fans of the series were not too happy with.

"We listen to our fans all of the time," Muzyka offered. "We listen to them on the forums, their feedback from stories. We're reading it all. If we can get ideas out of it that will make the game better, sure. We're not averse to taking feedback. That's part of our core values, is humility. Any time we get a good idea from fans... they're our audience. They keep us in business."

When asked about how the developers took it, Muzyka admitted that the team was a little disheartened.

"It was disappointing for them, yeah. They're moving on. They're making a great game. The script, frankly, has changed a little bit from what was released, too. It's been edited. They're always tuning it. They're always making it better. But yeah, it's tough when you see your work displayed. You realize only a small number of people are probably going to look at those spoilers in advance."

"It is hard on a team when they see their work revealed in an early form like that. It was a pre-release demo. The script was certainly not intended to be released in that form and that early. Here it is! It's not even out yet, but you can read through it. It's a summary. But they're going to get through it because they're a strong group. They really care about delivering a great game to the fans. They're committed to making this the best Mass Effect."

Wrapping up on the situation, Muzyka urged fans of the game to help keep the integrity and spirit alive in how storytelling should be performed. In a day and age that is very information-based, the idea of secrets and surprises is continually lost against a tide of pirating and theft.

"You edit it continually. It's a living process to build a game and it's also a living experience to play through it. You're seeing the graphics, you're seeing the choices, you're seeing the characters. Words alone on a page, they're not delivered in voice over, they're not delivered in the interface, they're not delivered as your character, with your choices up to that point imbuing them with meaning and purpose and identity, the emotion part of it," he continued.

"A lot of the art now in video games is developed in an interesting way where subtle expressions and facial animation, a tilt of the head, the way the camera is positioned, the lighting in a room, they can set the tone and the mood, the sound effects, the layer of audio that's put over the top of a scene, that stuff is really important. What I would suggest to the fans is, we're going to make sure we deliver an awesome experience as we have in prior Mass Effect games. Don't spoil the story. The fun of the story is uncovering things and exploring and finding new points to adventure in. I hope they don't lose that joy of discovery," Muzyka concluded.

Interesting. I wonder what the original script had in it that got such a loudly negative response...

Same here. I didn't see the script, but I'm definitely curious.

Hopefully they leave it in-game so we can see for ourselves. Maybe the fans are just over-reacting and the parts themselves will be handled very well in-game.

For example, I'd hate to see the story suddenly have a Super-Duper Happy Fun Ending just because some fans were upset at Commander Shepard's Killing-Spree ending (I'll be very disappointed if my renegade doesn't go out like Scarface.)

DeadPoolX wrote:Interesting. I wonder what the original script had in it that got such a loudly negative response...

Have you been on the Bioware forums?

People cry there for any reason. No one is ever happy. Someone's always bitching.

The Bioware forums have turned into your typical MMO forum. People bitching about certain things not being balanced. Bitching about spells being "nerfed."

I remember when the Bioware forums consisted of people, who were intelligent and helpful...

Those days, for the most part, seem long gone. The constant crying has made it so I never go to Bioware forums anymore...

Tawmis wrote:

DeadPoolX wrote:Interesting. I wonder what the original script had in it that got such a loudly negative response...

Have you been on the Bioware forums?

People cry there for any reason. No one is ever happy. Someone's always bitching.

The Bioware forums have turned into your typical MMO forum. People bitching about certain things not being balanced. Bitching about spells being "nerfed."

I remember when the Bioware forums consisted of people, who were intelligent and helpful...

Those days, for the most part, seem long gone. The constant crying has made it so I never go to Bioware forums anymore...

Yeah, I've been there, but not recently. The reason I don't go there any more than absolutely necessary is because of the reasons you mentioned. That and they have a knack for revealing spoiler information without any warning whatsoever.

I check the Bioware forums regularly, mainly to scan the "What's New" section and see if there is some newly-released info on Dragon Age III or some other Bioware project, like the shadowy new IP to be unveiled in a matter of days.

Some people on the board are nothing like what Tawmis described, but, alas, they are a minority, especially when one nears the Mass Effect section. As such, I don't ever check those sub-forums and I've no idea what the fans were bitching about and I don't know how to find out without stumbling into spoilers.

AndreaDraco wrote:I check the Bioware forums regularly, mainly to scan the "What's New" section and see if there is some newly-released info on Dragon Age III or some other Bioware project, like the shadowy new IP to be unveiled in a matter of days.

Some people on the board are nothing like what Tawmis described, but, alas, they are a minority, especially when one nears the Mass Effect section. As such, I don't ever check those sub-forums and I've no idea what the fans were bitching about and I don't know how to find out without stumbling into spoilers.

Ironically, my conflicts with the whiners was NOT in the Mass Effect section but in the Dragon Age section. When they updated some of the spell effects, some people cried about how specific spells didn't shatter bosses now (for example - I am sure I mentioned this before on here?). I could not believe the amount of whining that people did. It reminded me of the typical MMO forums (where people cry about spells and armor/weapons being 'updated' for the worse). The only issue I have had over on the Mass Effect forums is exactly what DPX mentioned; spoilers being mentioned without warnings. (Which annoys the Hades out of me).

And sadly, the treatment we were given for DRAGON AGE II has decreased my interest in DRAGON AGE III. I will no doubt get it, and get excited about it as more is leaked out... but DAII, in the end, was nowhere near as good as Origins. And it should have been. It should have been better.

Tawmis wrote: And sadly, the treatment we were given for DRAGON AGE II has decreased my interest in DRAGON AGE III. I will no doubt get it, and get excited about it as more is leaked out... but DAII, in the end, was nowhere near as good as Origins. And it should have been. It should have been better.

In terms of story, character development and overall characterization, I felt DA2 was much, much better than DAO. Then again, I like the fact the story had a more "local" feel and wasn't the same old "go on an epic quest to save the world" crap that's done in practically every RPG.

Now if you're talking about how the technical side of things... well, BioWare made a lot of mistakes with DA2. The worst, of course, were all the bugs (some of which were game breaking until players released their own mod-fixes for them) that weren't caught before the game's release. The constant reuse of areas -- like cave interiors -- and low resolution graphics sometimes seen on armor and clothing didn't help, either.

DeadPoolX wrote: In terms of story, character development and overall characterization, I felt DA2 was much, much better than DAO.

I agree. The story was a nice change of pace from the usual fare of fantasy RPGs and the characters were wonderfully detailed and rich. However, aside from the technical flaws you already mentioned, the thing that bothers me the most about DA2 was how little impact had the player's choices. There were no real, tangible consequences for his actions and this issue, coupled with the lackluster Third Act, is what prevents me from replaying the game from the beginning, like I did with Origins.

AndreaDraco wrote:

DeadPoolX wrote: In terms of story, character development and overall characterization, I felt DA2 was much, much better than DAO.

I agree. The story was a nice change of pace from the usual fare of fantasy RPGs and the characters were wonderfully detailed and rich. However, aside from the technical flaws you already mentioned, the thing that bothers me the most about DA2 was how little impact had the player's choices. There were no real, tangible consequences for his actions and this issue, coupled with the lackluster Third Act, is what prevents me from replaying the game from the beginning, like I did with Origins.

I agree, the fact that there wasn't this epic save the world feel to it... But at the same time, when you remove that, then it doesn't feel like your character has done much. And why play an RPG if it isn't to feel very heroic? And it's the "lack of choice effects" that we have all bitched about, that made me dislike DA2. In Origins, I could choose the Werewolves or the Dalish, and there was an effect. A different story, depending on who I sided with. With DA2, I could side with Templars or Mages, and in the end, it didn't matter at all, other than saying I said I picked one or the other; because the result is the same exact thing.

I don't hate the "epic save the world" idea, but the problem is it's been done to death. That's all we ever see in RPGs, so it was nice to experience an alternative for once. Besides, you can be heroic without saving the world.

As for a "lack of choices," I didn't feel that so much. Granted, your choices don't make for a huge difference (particularly at the end of the game), but DAO didn't really offer that much more. Sure, the origin stories differed, but otherwise the main story was practically the same, regardless of what origin or choices you made.

If you're talking about side quests or other interpersonal actions, then decisions made in DA2 had consequences. For instance, if you didn't befriend Isabela, she took off and was permanently gone for the rest of the game. If you took your sibling with you to the Deep Roads, he/she would either die or get turned into a Grey Warden; if you left him/her at home, he/she would become a Templar or be forced to join Kirkwall's Mage Circle.

If I had to choose which one I liked more, I'd pick DA2. I know a lot of fans wouldn't, but then some of these very same people still maintain that Baldur's Gate II is "the best RPG ever!"

DeadPoolX wrote: I don't hate the "epic save the world" idea, but the problem is it's been done to death. That's all we ever see in RPGs, so it was nice to experience an alternative for once. Besides, you can be heroic without saving the world.

Yes, you can. But really in DA2, I felt like someone hired "hand"/"sword" rather than feeling like a true "hero." Everything I did, was pretty much because someone needed something petty of me. "Hey there's these gangs. Go kill them and watch their bodies explode." "Hey the workers in the mine refuse to work because there's spiders, go clean it out for me."

I felt heroic twice in DA2. When you fight the Dragon by the mines. And when you do the final fight. But even the final fight, the heroic portion was greatly decreased; because when I sided with the mages, they turned on me and I had to kill them anyway; thus proving all along, that perhaps the Templars were right in what they believed, and thus making me feel like more of a heel than a hero. (Granted, Meredith and such went to extremes; but it would have been nicer if the mages didn't turn on me after I was doing everything to help them).

I think it's because, I never got INTO DA2. Like in DAO, I did things because I felt like I wanted to. Like the character would have done. DA2, I just felt like I - and the character - did things, because I was HIRED to do so.

DeadPoolX wrote: As for a "lack of choices," I didn't feel that so much. Granted, your choices don't make for a huge difference (particularly at the end of the game), but DAO didn't really offer that much more. Sure, the origin stories differed, but otherwise the main story was practically the same, regardless of what origin or choices you made.

Well, what I mean is in DA:O, your choices could really be seen. If you sided with the Dalish, you'd kill the werewolves. If you sided with the werewolves, they would come attack the Dalish. Just little things like that, where replying it - you could see an entirely new outcome to your side quest. DA2 didn't really have that. Other than Isabella departing. But really, that's trivial, because it's not really a "Quest."

DeadPoolX wrote: If I had to choose which one I liked more, I'd pick DA2. I know a lot of fans wouldn't, but then some of these very same people still maintain that Baldur's Gate II is "the best RPG ever!"

Don't be silly. Star Trail is the best RPG ever. Although it's been, what feels like forever since I have done any of the Baulder's Gate games... so...

Tawmis wrote:Everything I did, was pretty much because someone needed something petty of me. "Hey there's these gangs. Go kill them and watch their bodies explode." "Hey the workers in the mine refuse to work because there's spiders, go clean it out for me."

That's pretty much standard in any RPG. DAO had tons of that, as well. It's just how RPGs work.

It's not unusual to be the "savior of mankind" and get derailed from your world-saving quest simply because some old lady needs someone to save her cat. In other words, it's a trope that's been mocked before; I've often referred to them as "FedEx quests."

It's just a gimmick to give the player something to do besides the main quest and in the process, gain experience. Most of those quests you don't even NEED to do in DA2.

If you compare DA2 and DAO, I'd say DA2 had fewer mind-numbing quests than DAO. In DAO, I got so tired of facing tons of enemies in never-ending tunnels. All in all, DA2 was far more streamlined.

Tawmis wrote:I felt heroic twice in DA2. When you fight the Dragon by the mines. And when you do the final fight.

I think this illustrates the difference between your mindset and mine.

You see being heroic as fighting and defeating some huge, terribly dangerous enemy.

In contrast, I see acting heroic as doing anything that saves or helps someone. So if you rescue someone's kid or save someone's family, that's just as heroic to me as taking on and killing a dragon.

Neither one is "right," but I can see why you'd find the heroic deeds somewhat lacking in DA2 if that's your criteria.

Tawmis wrote:Well, what I mean is in DA:O, your choices could really be seen. If you sided with the Dalish, you'd kill the werewolves. If you sided with the werewolves, they would come attack the Dalish. Just little things like that, where replying it - you could see an entirely new outcome to your side quest.

There are a number of side-quests like that in DA2. Most of these involve mages, but you have different decisions to make and your choices can affect the outcome of these character's lives later on.

Tawmis wrote:DA2 didn't really have that. Other than Isabella departing. But really, that's trivial, because it's not really a "Quest."

I think Isabela leaving has a greater impact on the game -- and the main storyline -- than whether or not you side with the Dalish or werewolves.

But you're right, it's not a quest and that makes it even better. Instead of having a defined mission, you just have to act like a friend. You know, like a normal person would if you wanted to keep someone around and hang out with them.

DeadPoolX wrote: It's not unusual to be the "savior of mankind" and get derailed from your world-saving quest simply because some old lady needs someone to save her cat. In other words, it's a trope that's been mocked before; I've often referred to them as "FedEx quests."
It's just a gimmick to give the player something to do besides the main quest and in the process, gain experience. Most of those quests you don't even NEED to do in DA2.

Of course. But for me, DA2 felt like it was really nothing but that. Most of the things, other than the Dragon by the mines and the final fight, all seemed like "trivial" tasks. For example, cleaning out the spiders in the mine vs settling a long dispute between Dalish and Werewolves (either with war or peace). It felt like DAO, my choices had more of an impact. Rather than, "Here, go do this task and come back and I will give you another."

But as you said, it's probably because of a difference in playing style and what we want. I like the arching "you are the savior of the world!" type games; because it makes the character, to me, feel like he's important to the world. Where as, just being a hired swordsman, could be something anyone could do.

DeadPoolX wrote: If you compare DA2 and DAO, I'd say DA2 had fewer mind-numbing quests than DAO. In DAO, I got so tired of facing tons of enemies in never-ending tunnels. All in all, DA2 was far more streamlined.

I don't care for endless amounts of monsters coming at me either; I have long said, if I had done "Deep Roads First" I would have probably never finished Dragon Age: Origins. But something I think you said; also comes back here. The reused rooms and tunnels were always the same in DA2, and perhaps that played against me. (Although, it doesn't bother me when I play it; because I understand making load times faster and such by reusing rooms); in hindsight, it feels I was shorthanded. I was given a more original experience with DA:O, because all the areas were fresh and new.

DeadPoolX wrote:

Tawmis wrote:I felt heroic twice in DA2. When you fight the Dragon by the mines. And when you do the final fight.

I think this illustrates the difference between your mindset and mine.
You see being heroic as fighting and defeating some huge, terribly dangerous enemy.

+1 True.

DeadPoolX wrote:

Tawmis wrote:Well, what I mean is in DA:O, your choices could really be seen. If you sided with the Dalish, you'd kill the werewolves. If you sided with the werewolves, they would come attack the Dalish. Just little things like that, where replying it - you could see an entirely new outcome to your side quest.

There are a number of side-quests like that in DA2. Most of these involve mages, but you have different decisions to make and your choices can affect the outcome of these character's lives later on.

They do; like some of the mages you encounter later; if you saved them, will listen to you. But I mean, that final fight... was a disappointment. Well not the fight, just that the mages turn on you - no matter what.