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I forgot about Fable III. That's something I've been looking at ever since I learned it's co-op. Maia and I like playing co-op games together.

As far as SW:TOR is concerned... yeah, that's why I don't play MMOs anymore. When I was a teenager (I was 17 when Ultima Online, the first commercially successful MMO, was released) I liked them a lot, but I wasn't footing the bill.

Guild Wars 2 is supposedly coming out soon (sometime in 2011) and like the original GW, it's free to play. You've got to buy the software, but there are no subscription fees.

Come to think of it... I'm surprised Maia didn't list GW2. I think she's more interested in it than I am.

AndreaDraco wrote:If only SW:TOR would be free...

x kazilliontrillion.

Bioware knows they're going to make a killing. They will NOT dent World of Warcraft's subscription. They won't even put a small ding in it. But they can be pretty sure that SW:TOR is going to do well enough that it will not need to go to F2P.

What cracks me up to no end (for many reasons) is that EverQuest 2 is free to play (but apparently you're prompted fairly frequently to "subscribe for benefits"). But apparently the original EverQuest is still monthly.

Personally if the original EverQuest went F2P, I'd go back to it if I had access to my characters.

DeadPoolX wrote:I forgot about Fable III. That's something I've been looking at ever since I learned it's co-op. Maia and I like playing co-op games together.

So I got FABLE II, and it "has co-op"... but it's the stupidest co-op ever...
I will never pick up FABLE because of the lameness of that game left in my mouth...

Tawmis wrote:

AndreaDraco wrote:If only SW:TOR would be free...

x kazilliontrillion.

Bioware knows they're going to make a killing. They will NOT dent World of Warcraft's subscription. They won't even put a small ding in it. But they can be pretty sure that SW:TOR is going to do well enough that it will not need to go to F2P.

What cracks me up to no end (for many reasons) is that EverQuest 2 is free to play (but apparently you're prompted fairly frequently to "subscribe for benefits"). But apparently the original EverQuest is still monthly.

Personally if the original EverQuest went F2P, I'd go back to it if I had access to my characters.

DeadPoolX wrote:I forgot about Fable III. That's something I've been looking at ever since I learned it's co-op. Maia and I like playing co-op games together.

So I got FABLE II, and it "has co-op"... but it's the stupidest co-op ever...
I will never pick up FABLE because of the lameness of that game left in my mouth...

I looked into EQ2 when it went F2P.... and it's disturbing. 80% of the races and classes are locked behind the premium shroud.... and if you want to play the game without paying anything, you are forced to deal with a LOT of barriers... such as only being able to carry a max of 5 gold per level (so at level 1, you can carry 5 gold.... at level 2 you can carry 10 gold, etc), only being able to receive in-game mail (can't send mail), xp penalties, and gear restrictions.

It's EQ2... lite. More like a shareware demo of the game than an actual F2P MMO... waaaaay to many restrictions and limitations in the F2P model.

oberonqa wrote: I looked into EQ2 when it went F2P.... and it's disturbing. 80% of the races and classes are locked behind the premium shroud.... and if you want to play the game without paying anything, you are forced to deal with a LOT of barriers... such as only being able to carry a max of 5 gold per level (so at level 1, you can carry 5 gold.... at level 2 you can carry 10 gold, etc), only being able to receive in-game mail (can't send mail), xp penalties, and gear restrictions. It's EQ2... lite. More like a shareware demo of the game than an actual F2P MMO... waaaaay to many restrictions and limitations in the F2P model.

I had heard as much, and glad to see what I heard is validated by yet another. The thing with LORD OF THE RINGS ONLINE, which I currently enjoy, it's also F2P... but they have a max of 5 gold, period, unless you go premium. But then, if you do go premium, you also get a ton of benefits, like 500 Points per month to spend in the story (and most Quest Packs are like 500 to 600 points) - so in one month, you could easily have enough to get the next Quest Pack area (the first areas, are all free and EASILY carry you to level 25). So by then, you could purchase North Downs or Lone Lands. Take a month to go through all those quests (depending on how thorough you want to be) and then have 500 points to spend on the next one. Some areas, like Lone Lands, are only 50 points (not 500) as a special they have had going for quite some time now. LOTRO is very well done, I think. Not as "pretty" and "cartoony" perhaps as World of Warcraft, but it's pretty solid. (Just wish I could figure out why it causes my computer to BSOD sometimes in dungeons...)

Tawmis wrote:

oberonqa wrote: I looked into EQ2 when it went F2P.... and it's disturbing. 80% of the races and classes are locked behind the premium shroud.... and if you want to play the game without paying anything, you are forced to deal with a LOT of barriers... such as only being able to carry a max of 5 gold per level (so at level 1, you can carry 5 gold.... at level 2 you can carry 10 gold, etc), only being able to receive in-game mail (can't send mail), xp penalties, and gear restrictions. It's EQ2... lite. More like a shareware demo of the game than an actual F2P MMO... waaaaay to many restrictions and limitations in the F2P model.

I had heard as much, and glad to see what I heard is validated by yet another. The thing with LORD OF THE RINGS ONLINE, which I currently enjoy, it's also F2P... but they have a max of 5 gold, period, unless you go premium. But then, if you do go premium, you also get a ton of benefits, like 500 Points per month to spend in the story (and most Quest Packs are like 500 to 600 points) - so in one month, you could easily have enough to get the next Quest Pack area (the first areas, are all free and EASILY carry you to level 25). So by then, you could purchase North Downs or Lone Lands. Take a month to go through all those quests (depending on how thorough you want to be) and then have 500 points to spend on the next one. Some areas, like Lone Lands, are only 50 points (not 500) as a special they have had going for quite some time now. LOTRO is very well done, I think. Not as "pretty" and "cartoony" perhaps as World of Warcraft, but it's pretty solid. (Just wish I could figure out why it causes my computer to BSOD sometimes in dungeons...)

I've heard a lot about LOTRO... but the thing that keeps me from playing is exactly what you mentioned.... limitations in content. That's not really F2P in my humble opinion. When a game locks content away behind a purchase, then you have no choice but to purchase said content in order to continue playing. In LOTRO.... if you don't want to buy any of the Quest Packs... your going to be stuck with the first areas for the duration of your play... until you break down and start buying the Quest Packs... which is essentially just a monthly fee dressed up as something else. That's also exactly what EQ2 does in terms of content. You get access to some of the areas, but the other areas and content you have to pay for.

Those games, in my opinion, aren't F2P. They are utilizing a deceptive business model to get you hooked on playing and then get you to pony up cash so you can keep playing with your friends or to play with new content. Oh sure you can start for free... but sooner or later your going to have pay to continue enjoying the game with your friends... or to experience new content.

The kind of F2P games I like playing (aside from Guild Wars which only involves a one-time fee just to buy the game or one of the expansion packs) are games where everyone has access to all the content... and the stuff you can buy if you choose are perks such as gear or increased xp/currency rate... or even purchasing xp or currency directly through the in-game "store". These kinds of micro-transactions are the fuel that most F2P games use to generate revenue and there's nothing wrong with that. Everyone has access to the same content, but the people with a little extra cash can buy said perks and get a leg up on everyone else... but those perks are optional.

That's what I like about Vindictus, Ministry of War, and Dragon's Call. Ministry of War and Dragon's Call are browser-based games, but they are quite fun. Vindictus has pretty amazing production value despite being a F2P game (pretty amazing graphics for a Source-based game and voice-acted cutscenes)... and won IGN's best F2P MMO of 2010. All three generate revenue through the use of perk-based microtransactions without limiting content. Some would say these perks can create an unbalanced game, where the people who buy the perks are overpowered and destabilize a game... but honestly, I don't see much of a difference between buying optional perks and buying content packs. Both end up with players who have spent cash to access stuff that other players don't have access to without spending cash. The difference is one is completely optional... and one isn't really optional at all.

oberonqa wrote: I've heard a lot about LOTRO... but the thing that keeps me from playing is exactly what you mentioned.... limitations in content. That's not really F2P in my humble opinion. When a game locks content away behind a purchase, then you have no choice but to purchase said content in order to continue playing. In LOTRO.... if you don't want to buy any of the Quest Packs... your going to be stuck with the first areas for the duration of your play... until you break down and start buying the Quest Packs... which is essentially just a monthly fee dressed up as something else.

The thing with LORD OF THE RINGS ONLINE is, you can earn "TP" (Turbine Points) by doing Deeds within the game. Most of the quests you get, lead to the start of deeds. For example, just about every area has a "Spider Killer" deed or a "Goblin Slayer" deed. You do the first set of deeds, which is killing 50 spiders. You get "Spider Slayer" Deed, which typically awards you 5 to 10 TP. Then you can do "Advanced Spider Slayer" Deed, which usually earns you 10 to 15 TP. So it's VERY easy to earn TP within the game, that's used in the "Lord of the Rings Store" to buy Quest Packs. And like I said, "Lone Lands" which is for level 25 to 38 (or 40? I can't remember) cost you "50 TP." Trust me, within one month of playing, long before you hit Level 25, you will have 50 TP. EASILY. So right there, you could technically purchase Lone Lands (for free, by doing "Deeds"), and carry on to about level 40. Which, I have been playing Lord of the Rings Online - and I am only Level 36 - and I have been at this game for about three or four months (if not a little longer). Granted, I don't play all that much (a little here and there). But if you really wanted to, you could easily do a lot more deeds than what I have done and get a considerable amount of TP without much effort.

Here is a Wiki of quite a few deeds. You can also go here which breaks it down nicely. All in all, if you look - you can see you can get Deed Points very easy. (All the Deeds, for example in Shire, Bree, Thorin's Halls - and those general areas around there - are all the free content, you get that can level you to Level 25, without even touching a Quest Pack... total those deeds, and you have some serious points... take those points, by Lone Lands, for 50 TP, and then look at all the points, you could easily get with Lone Lands).

Some of the deeds require "grinding" (going out and killing something repeatedly - but for example, when I was bored - I went back through and got the Goblin and Advanced Goblin Slayer in Lone Lands, because I was higher level than the Goblins, to the point they wouldn't even attack me, unless I attacked first - so earning those points was VERY easy - and actually very fun to come back and stomp some revenge!)

oberonqa wrote: Those games, in my opinion, aren't F2P. They are utilizing a deceptive business model to get you hooked on playing and then get you to pony up cash so you can keep playing with your friends or to play with new content. Oh sure you can start for free... but sooner or later your going to have pay to continue enjoying the game with your friends... or to experience new content.

How is that deceptive? How do you expect them to make SOME kind of money? Running servers and adding additional content... they have to pay their employees somehow?

oberonqa wrote: The kind of F2P games I like playing (aside from Guild Wars which only involves a one-time fee just to buy the game or one of the expansion packs) are games where everyone has access to all the content... and the stuff you can buy if you choose are perks such as gear or increased xp/currency rate... or even purchasing xp or currency directly through the in-game "store". These kinds of micro-transactions are the fuel that most F2P games use to generate revenue and there's nothing wrong with that.

Er... you do realize that's how LORD OF THE RINGS ONLINE works, yes?

Because, even if you don't purchase the Quest Packs, for example, from the Lord of the Rings Store - you can STILL go in those areas. For example, say you don't purchase LONE LANDS or NORTH DOWNS (which are both the common areas for levels 25 to 40) - you can STILL venture into those lands. However, the quests there are not available to you, until you purchase them within the store. So you COULD go into LONE LANDS or NORTH DOWNS and keep leveling your character, by killing monsters ... it's just no NPCs will be unlocked to give you quests. (You will see the NPCs, but they will have a coin over their head to indicate to get the quests, you need to purchase the Quest Pack from the online store).

Tawmis wrote: How is that deceptive? How do you expect them to make SOME kind of money? Running servers and adding additional content... they have to pay their employees somehow

I suppose they could model themselves after Guild War's way of running a business.

What GW has NO fees. You get the FULL game with no restrictions or limitations. However, there are neat bonuses or items you can pay for, but none of them affect the game in any way beyond your own personal needs.

In another words, you can buy the following:

• New outfits (these don't affect your abilities, they just look cool)
• An extra character slot (you start off with six or eight, I forget which)
• Extra storage space (and you get a LOT of it in-game to start off with anyway)
• Unlock ALL powers (which you get anyway later on in the game)
• Change your appearance or gender

So if I wanted to unlock all powers (which I still need to pay for with in-game money) and make them available right away, I could purchase that with real money. However, since I'll find ALL of those powers later on, I don't have to do this at all. I'm just impatient, which is why I did that.

Maia and I just saw this on Steam, but a game called Hunted: The Demon’s Forge which is ONLY co-op. Yeah, that's right, it's designed for co-op and that's it.

I can't recall of ANY game that's ONLY co-op. Many games nowadays include co-op (some of which are half-ass attempts), but it's not the main feature of the game.

We don't know if H:DF is coming out in 2011, but it's available for pre-purchase right now. Hopefully that means it'll get released soon. We want to see some reviews and if it's good, we'll get it on a sale in the future.