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Just wondering if it's worth getting... I've never played it, but I've been hearing many good things about it.

You really have to ask this?

Maia and I are on TF2 a lot! Anything you'd like to know about the game, aside from whether or not you should buy it?

BTW, you do know it's an online game, right? The only single player component is a practice mode (and that didn't even exist when Maia and I started playing). I'm asking this question because you've shown an aversion to online gaming before, so I want to make sure you realize this game is online ONLY and there's no story to it at all.

I do realise it's online only. Most of what I've seen of TF2 so far have been the various "Meet the..." videos (as in, Meet the Spy, Meet the Demoman etc.); I also saw some instances of gameplay.

It looks... interesting? In a sort of very cheesy, silly way. Particularly the Heavy.

"INCOMIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING!!!" *TRAMP TRAMP TRAMP TRAMP*
"WHO TOUCHED SASHA?!?!" *BANG BANG BANG*

I realise that it's an online FPS... that makes me nervous, since my experience with FPSs is limited to such games as Wolfenstein 3-D, Doom etc... where I'd be thinking something like "Ohshit I've been hit by a fireball! Who's firing fireballs at me?!? And now someone else is doing it too! Too many monsters all coming at once! Ohshitohshitohshit, I'm gonna DIE!" *dies* "I played 5 minutes to die like THIS?!" *quits*

Even after I got better at FPSs, they were still... very disorienting. I had to keep spinning around to see what was shooting at me, and everything was going by waaaaay too fast, and the whole experience just made me feel nauseous in no time at all. So I'm wondering if all FPSs (TF2 included) are like that. Because TF2 is like that, I'd rather not play and get nauseous.

Rath Darkblade wrote:Just wondering if it's worth getting... I've never played it, but I've been hearing many good things about it.

Surprised DPX did not slap you for even asking this... He's mentioned it several time.

Rath Darkblade wrote:I do realise it's online only. That makes me nervous, since my experience with FPSs is limited to such games as Wolfenstein 3-D, Doom etc... where I'd be thinking something like "Ohshit I've been hit by a fireball! Who's firing fireballs at me?!? And now someone else is doing it too! Too many monsters all coming at once! Ohshitohshitohshit, I'm gonna DIE!" *dies* "I played 5 minutes to die like THIS?!" *quits*

You know, I am not good at FPS games. I mean I have beat Halo, Halo 2, Halo 3, Gears of War, Gears of War 2, and am currently playing LFD2... and despite all that I am still not a good FPS person. But does it matter to me? Frick no. I go in to have fun! Screw everyone else who screams newb or whatever.

Rath Darkblade wrote:I do realise it's online only. Most of what I've seen of TF2 so far have been the various "Meet the..." videos (as in, Meet the Spy, Meet the Demoman etc.); I also saw some instances of gameplay.

The "Meet the [class]" videos aren't really a good example of the game itself. Those are pre-rendered cut scenes designed to show off each class (although the Pyro and Medic still don't have one) and that's it.

Since you've seen some game play already, you probably know it's a very fast-paced FPS. If you haven't had any prior FPS experience (games like Wolfenstein 3D and DOOM, which are nearly two decades old, don't count), you WILL suck at it.

I don't mean to be rude or scare you, but online FPS games sometimes have a high learning curve. I don't feel that TF2 does, but I've been playing online FPS games since the mid-1990s.

Rath Darkblade wrote:It looks... interesting? In a sort of very cheesy, silly way. Particularly the Heavy.

"INCOMIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING!!!" *TRAMP TRAMP TRAMP TRAMP*
"WHO TOUCHED SASHA?!?!" *BANG BANG BANG*

TF2 is very silly (or at least the characters are) and doesn't take itself seriously. That usually attracts more casual gamers, in addition to the regular hardcore experienced players.

Unfortunately, you'll probably run into a jerk or two along the way. Maia's recent encounter with an asshole shows that very well. However, the majority of people we've met on there have either been neutral or at least fairly nice; some individuals have been real entertaining, too.

It's often hard to tell what someone is thinking unless they're using voice chat. Typing just takes too much time and concentration, unless you're in the respawn room or dead.

Rath Darkblade wrote:I realise that it's an online FPS... that makes me nervous, since my experience with FPSs is limited to such games as Wolfenstein 3-D, Doom etc... where I'd be thinking something like "Ohshit I've been hit by a fireball! Who's firing fireballs at me?!? And now someone else is doing it too! Too many monsters all coming at once! Ohshitohshitohshit, I'm gonna DIE!" *dies* "I played 5 minutes to die like THIS?!" *quits*

One thing you'll HAVE to learn in any online FPS is that you WILL die. Something you'll die a lot. This isn't a big deal. Dying CAN get annoying if someone is spawn camping, but few people do that.

Getting over the "Oh no, I'm gonna die!" mindset is difficult for someone who's used to Adventures and RPGs. In those games, death has meaning. Even in single player FPS games, death can be a major setback. This isn't true at all in online FPS games.

Rath Darkblade wrote:Even after I got better at FPSs, they were still... very disorienting. I had to keep spinning around to see what was shooting at me, and everything was going by waaaaay too fast, and the whole experience just made me feel nauseous in no time at all. So I'm wondering if all FPSs (TF2 included) are like that. Because TF2 is like that, I'd rather not play and get nauseous.

I've never felt nauseous from an FPS, so I'm probably not the best person to ask on that issue. I know Maia used to gets nauseated from FPS games, but maybe games like TF2 and L4D changed that.

Old FPS games, particularly very early ones like Wolf 3D and DOOM, moved differently. I can't quite explain, but the movement was almost "too smooth." That sounds odd, but I often felt like I was "floating" instead of "walking or running" in those old FPS titles.

Newer FPS games (especially anything post-Half-Life, which means from 1998 and on) gives the player the sensation of walking and running. I don't know if that'll be better for you or not.

As for moving "way too fast", you can always turn down your mouse's sensitivity. A lot of people do that, not because moving fast makes them dizzy, but because it gives them better aim. That's especially true if you're playing a Sniper (which, by the way, is NOT a class I'd recommend for a newbie).

Go watch some gameplay videos on YouTube. That'll give you an idea. Of course, some people have crazy FPS control skills so try to find one that just seems generic. You'll die if you don't use a keyboard/mouse combo, though. Unless you're good with a controller. Keyboard only isn't going to cut it like older 90s FPS games would.

Hmm. I've watched some gameplay videos on Youtube (e.g. how to play an engineer, how to play a spy). The ideas seem to be fairly straightforward (and yes, I do realise that those classes aren't for new players).

Is it possible to play offline for a little while, just to get used to the controls and the concepts, and then try online?

Tawmis wrote:You know, I am not good at FPS games. I mean I have beat Halo, Halo 2, Halo 3, Gears of War, Gears of War 2, and am currently playing LFD2... and despite all that I am still not a good FPS person. But does it matter to me? Frick no. I go in to have fun! Screw everyone else who screams newb or whatever.

Heh. I know what you mean - I've had bad experiences with people screaming 'n00b' etc. when I tried playing AOE3 online. I just decided "F*** you" and took my game offline.

DPX wrote:I don't mean to be rude or scare you, but online FPS games sometimes have a high learning curve. I don't feel that TF2 does, but I've been playing online FPS games since the mid-1990s.

I'm not offended or scared (I've heard far worse IRL), and I'm prepared to learn. I've come across an ICQ acquaintance and we've played some D&D online, we played Diablo II online, and we've shared some blogs/etc. He's been telling me for a while to grab TF2 or The Orange Box. I know him fairly well and he knows that I'm new to the online-FPS idea, so I think that'll be all right.

DPX wrote:Getting over the "Oh no, I'm gonna die!" mindset is difficult for someone who's used to Adventures and RPGs. In those games, death has meaning. Even in single player FPS games, death can be a major setback. This isn't true at all in online FPS games.

Hmm... like I said, I've seen some youtube videos about "How to play the..." etc. I quite realise that, if I just rush in stupidly and I don't know what I'm doing, I'm going to die. That's fine - that's just the consequences of being stupid. :p I was hoping that it'd be possible to try out some of the concepts first, get used to the controls, and then try it out online. Sounds like a good plan? *smiles hopefully*

Rath Darkblade wrote:

Tawmis wrote:You know, I am not good at FPS games. I mean I have beat Halo, Halo 2, Halo 3, Gears of War, Gears of War 2, and am currently playing LFD2... and despite all that I am still not a good FPS person. But does it matter to me? Frick no. I go in to have fun! Screw everyone else who screams newb or whatever.

Heh. I know what you mean - I've had bad experiences with people screaming 'n00b' etc. when I tried playing AOE3 online. I just decided "F*** you" and took my game offline.

Oh, no, no, no. Don't log off. That's the worse thing you could do. You give them the satisfaction of knowing they drove you off. You find the person who called you a noob and follow them around. Fire your gun at nothing and give away your position. (Sure it gets you killed, but ideally it will get him killed also). And you're technically not doing anything wrong.

Rath Darkblade wrote:Is it possible to play offline for a little while, just to get used to the controls and the concepts, and then try online?

Yes. There are offline tutorial and practice maps you can play as DPX mentioned earlier.

Rath Darkblade wrote:Hmm. I've watched some gameplay videos on Youtube (e.g. how to play an engineer, how to play a spy). The ideas seem to be fairly straightforward (and yes, I do realise that those classes aren't for new players).

The Spy is VERY difficult to play. Maia and I have been playing TF2 for quite a while (probably well over a year) and we still have problems with that class.

The Engineer, by contrast, probably is a good class for beginners. You generally see less combat as an Engineer, but you're vitally important to the team. You construct dispensers, teleporters and sentries. So while you're not on the front lines (at least most of the time), you can do a lot of damage in a defensive capacity.

Rath Darkblade wrote:Is it possible to play offline for a little while, just to get used to the controls and the concepts, and then try online?

Yeah, there's an offline training mode. It doesn't really prepare you for playing against real people, but it does give you some practice with different classes.

Rath Darkblade wrote:Heh. I know what you mean - I've had bad experiences with people screaming 'n00b' etc. when I tried playing AOE3 online. I just decided "F*** you" and took my game offline.

In TF2 that'd be considered a "Rage Quit." There's an achievement for someone who gets their most recent kill to rage quit.

Rath Darkblade wrote: He's been telling me for a while to grab TF2 or The Orange Box. I know him fairly well and he knows that I'm new to the online-FPS idea, so I think that'll be all right.

I think you'll have to buy the Orange Box unless you purchase TF2 by itself on Steam. I'd go for the Orange Box -- disc or digital download -- since you get a lot of good games in one package. Portal is part of the Orange Box as well and I think you'd really like that.

BTW, it doesn't matter if you buy the Orange Box in a store or on Steam, because you'll have to use Steam to play. You simply install it (if using a disc) and then attach it to your Steam account. If you don't a Steam account already, you might want to go make one before buying the Orange Box. You don't have to, of course, but it'll make the installation process smoother, since you won't need to do everything at once.

Rath Darkblade wrote:Hmm... like I said, I've seen some youtube videos about "How to play the..." etc. I quite realise that, if I just rush in stupidly and I don't know what I'm doing, I'm going to die. That's fine - that's just the consequences of being stupid. :p I was hoping that it'd be possible to try out some of the concepts first, get used to the controls, and then try it out online. Sounds like a good plan? *smiles hopefully*

As I said, there's a practice mode available. So you can learn the controls there. Like MI said, the controls are different than in the old FPS games. In my opinion, modern FPS controls are a LOT easier since it's all standardized now. Interestingly enough, Valve set the standard for the WASD configuration back in the late 90s with the original Half-Life.

You can buy TF2 standalone in retail. I bought my brother a copy that way.

MusicallyInspired wrote:You can buy TF2 standalone in retail. I bought my brother a copy that way.

Yeah, I know, but it seems more difficult to find now. All in all, the Orange Box is a better deal IF you don't already have other Valve games.

Rath, I was never interested in online FPS games (or pretty much any online games that weren't co-op) until I saw TF2. I liked the light-hearted feel of it and thought that maybe it would mean that the people playing it would be more laid-back.

A lot of times they are. We've certainly encountered our share of jerks, but we've also encountered some good teams, or at least ones that don't really bother you either way. Some nights are a riot. A couple weeks ago, I was trading a couple odd Princess Bride quotes back and forth on the chat with someone on the opposite team. No clue who it was, but it was fun.

I think that it is a good game for someone who doesn't want hard-core online FPS gaming. Most servers don't have team-kill enabled, so you don't have to worry about accidentally killing your teammates. People overall are a bit more laid-back, or at least goofy.

Plus, the variety of classes allow you to play in different ways. I've actually clocked the most hours as an engineer, but I also like playing the heavy, the pyro, and the medic, depending on my mood and the needs of the team.

I think the engineer is considered hard to play because you have to think about where to place your stuff to the most advantage. Positioning your equipment is key and can make a big difference. I love the fact that they recently updated it so you can move your stuff. I surprised an enemy pyro the other night because he came around the corner expecting my sentry to be in the same place it was last time it killed him, but I had moved it across the room (behind him), so he was surprised again.

Most of the classes I like don't require you to be super-fast accurate. The heavy is quite slow and steady, but if you play him smart, he can be really powerful. Once you understand the characters and their strengths weaknesses, that helps the most.

I would LOVE to be able to play the spy, but I think it's really difficult, so I haven't tried that much. I definitely don't have the reflexes for the scout or the accuracy for the soldier.

The main thing I've found (as someone closer to your position of newly playing online FPSs) is what DPX said earlier. You need to get over your worry of dying initially, then once you discover the joys of respawning, you need to remind yourself not to get killed ALL the time.

The offline training mode is pretty new and I think you'd definitely find it useful. We may be able to setup a practice server too, if there weren't too many of us on it (and it was closed to the public). Or just find one with hardly anyone on it and practice there.

I forgot to mention in my last post that I get motion-sick in some older games, but I've found with TF2 and other FPS games I don't. I do have v-sync enabled and that seems to help. I don't care if I take a hit on performance because of it. If it helps me enjoy the game (i.e. not feel sick), then it's worth it.

They also have free TF2 weekends sometimes. I know it would be a big download, but if you're unsure of whether to buy the game or not, you can always wait for one of those and try it out.

Maiandra wrote:I would LOVE to be able to play the spy, but I think it's really difficult, so I haven't tried that much. I definitely don't have the reflexes for the scout or the accuracy for the soldier.

The most difficult class, when it comes to accuracy, is the Sniper. That class can take quite a while to learn, but once you do... well, it's exhilarating to shoot someone in the head and kill them. It's even better when they have no idea where you are.

A fully charged sniper rifle can kill ANY class in one shot if hit in the head.

There was one map, Pipeline, where I kept getting head shot after head shot. It's nice when you can force the enemy into a choke point, so whenever they come out, they're an easy target.

Maiandra wrote:The main thing I've found (as someone closer to your position of newly playing online FPSs) is what DPX said earlier. You need to get over your worry of dying initially, then once you discover the joys of respawning, you need to remind yourself not to get killed ALL the time.

In some maps you'll die more than others. For instance... there's Soccer. I can't even explain that one properly, but it's extremely chaotic. I used to hate it, but it's fun for a round or two.