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Rath Darkblade wrote:Some of the upgrades that have been suggested here are simply too expensive for me to consider. I could get a faster CPU and a slow graphics card, but then I might as well have not bought a new computer, because I still can't game with it!

Yes, but... it's a LOT easier to upgrade the video card later on. So you're better off spending more on the processor and less on the video card at this time.

You'll still be able to play a ton of games anyway. If you're worried about Dragon Age, whatever you buy here will run it just fine. DA doesn't have high system requirements.

Rath Darkblade wrote:Though in the bundle it costs an extra $39 from the final price I got yesterday. Or I could get the Thermaltake Litepower 500W Power Supply for an extra $19.

Upgrading your power supply is worth more than saving $19.

Rath Darkblade wrote:1. I am unlikely to upgrade the processor myself, since I don't know how. The CPU uses about 73W, the board uses about 50, and the video card uses 61, so that's 184 watts there. Now if I swap the video card for one that uses 200 watts (none on the market I know of, unless I go twin-cards, which I don't need and don't want), that's still only 315 watts. The power supply I have is 430W - easy!

Rath, I don't know where you're getting your numbers from, but according to AMD (which took over ATI), the Radeon HD 5670 needs at least a 400 watt power supply to run it and the rest of your PC's needs.

Don't get me wrong -- a 430 watt power supply can run a Radeon HD 5670. There's no doubt about that. However, you'll probably end up putting a strain on your PC if you use it for long periods of time while playing graphically intensive games. Considering that you can upgrade to 500 watts for $19, it's in your best interest to go for the higher rated PSU.

The CPU is fine. The top three non enterprise level Intel chips are the i7, i5 and the i3. They will generally run circles around any of the other Intel consumer chips, including the Core2. It is a much better chip than what I think DPX realizes. You have the makings of what could be a fairly decent machine. The graphics card is fine for now and can be easily upgraded later, if you feel the need. The only thing that I would question is the Power Supply.

Rath, I don't think you realize the way loads on a PSU work. There is a difference between sustained loads (duty rating) and and spikes. While a PSU needs to be able to deliver enough power for sustained loads for extended periods of time, it also has to be able to handle all of the sudden peaks of load. When you first turn on a PC there is a spike of power consumption as components as first powered up and and the system is checking for all its components, enumerating the RAM and all of the other things going on at POST. Disk drives are also beginning to spin up. Remember they have to overcome inertia to spin up to speed. The same thing occurs when the HDDs spin up from power saving modes.

Other components can use extra power when they power up from inactivity or are first connected, including external devices such as outboard drives or other USB devices. Components can draw extra power when they are under heavier than normal load. PSUs can handle times of higher loads than it is rated for, but the more often it has to do this, the shorter the life span of it will be. Power devices have a duty rating, meaning that you should keep use below this level as much as possible.

Too many times of drawing power beyond the levels it ordinarily has to sustain can make the PSU to age much faster, if not cause it to out and out fail. As I said before, if a power supply goes, it can take out your motherboard, too. Even just the additional wear and tear that an under powered PSU can endure, your system can become unstable. The two single most important items that dictates how stable a system will be are the chip set and the PSU. The mother board that you have chosen has good chipset. You have the makings of a fairly decent machine. Don't cheap out on PSU. As DPX said, the better PSU is worth more than saving $19. It is insurance for the longevity and stability of the PC.

Collector wrote:They will generally run circles around any of the other Intel consumer chips, including the Core2. It is a much better chip than what I think DPX realizes.

I know an i3 is a good chip; however, considering how difficult it is to replace and that he has options to get a faster one, I just think he's making a mistake by getting the least powerful out what he can select on that site.

I guess I believe this because my processor is clocked at 3.6GHz. Yes, I know it's a P4 and a single core. However, by getting the fastest single core available (maybe even ever made at all), I've greatly extended my six year-old computer's lifespan. It can play just about any game released this year (2010) without any trouble at all.

In most cases, my PC seems to run just as well as Maia's and hers is newer with a dual-core processor. That alone is a selling point for getting the fastest speed available.

The only part I've ever replaced is my video card, which is on the higher-end of its generation. Sure, it plays a part in my PC's longevity, but a good video card without an equally good processor would run into problems long before now.

Maybe Rath doesn't need a more powerful processor. From what I can tell, I'm a "power gamer" whereas he isn't. I'm just going by what I'd prefer to do, but it's ultimately his choice.

Rath, no matter what you do, get a new monitor! LCD monitors in the 19" to 22" range are quite inexpensive nowadays. I know this is entirely optional, but if you're getting a new machine that's vastly superior to your old one, there's no point in playing at resolutions used 13 years ago or so.

DeadPoolX wrote:What LCD monitor runs at a native resolution of 1024x768? I was running that resolution in the late 1990s.

My LCD screen is 1024x768 at 75Hz.

You're not still using a CRT, are you?

Hey hey hey now. Don't knock CRT. I still think they're infinitely superior to LCD screens (besides not being widescreen). I'm waiting for OLED monitors to make their debut (along with a price reduction). That'll be the real deal. But it'll probably not run optimally on anything but the native resolution. I hate native resolutions. Monitors should portray every resolution the same....like CRTs.

Maybe you don't need anything more than a lower-end card (and that's fine), but why spend the money on a card you won't take full advantage of? Why not just buy a less expensive card (i.e. 256-512MB) and save yourself some money. Put that extra cash towards the processor!

I gotta agree with DPX here. Typically whatever is most expensive you splurge on first. Cut back on the stuff that's cheaper. Like video cards and even RAM.

You must have an older LCD monitor, since I haven't seen one with that low of a resolution in a long time. I have two older 19" LCD monitors in a dual setup and both can run at 75Hz, which isn't something you see too often nowadays; usually you see 60 or 65Hz. I don't think it makes much of a difference anymore, but maybe I'm wrong.

I have to admit, I like the flexibility that a CRT has compared to LCD monitors. I just wish they weren't so bulky and heavy and were easier on the eyes.

Yeah, it's small too. 15".

OK. I've consulted with some hardware specialists and this is what I got when I upgraded:

Case: Antec Three Hundred Tower Gaming Case, No Power Supply
Processor: AMD Athlon II X4 640 Processor
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-880GA-UD3H, Socket AM3
Memory: Mushkin 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3 KIT
Power Supply: Thermaltake Litepower 500W Power Supply
Graphics Card: XFX Radeon HD 5670 - 1GB 128-bit GDDR5
HDD: Samsung SpinPoint F3 - 1TB
Optical Drive: LG 22x DVD Burner
OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium, 64-Bit, OEM
$79 assembling fee

All for $800 AUS exactly, plus $26 courier costs. (Or, if I cut out Win7, I save $115; or I can also order the OS separately, for $115, and install it myself, which also gives me the OS DVD, in case something goes wrong and I need to re-install the OS).

Note the faster processor from AMD; I will also be able to upgrade it more often (which I can't with Intel). I also upgraded the PSU from 430W to 500W, and included Win7 Home Premium, 64-bit. Otherwise it's the same.

On the other hand, if I want to skimp on the case and get a Mid ATX Tower instead of the Antec tower, I can get this ready-made case here: http://www.mwave.com.au/sku-50990067-MW ... ore_CPU_AM

That will save me $79 (them building the case) and $115 (cost of OS). So I get that for $749 AUS, plus $26 courier costs = $775.

My budget and I can live with either. What do you think?

I'm really glad to see you upgraded to a 500 watt PSU. You won't regret it later on.

I don't know much about AMD processors. The last one I had was sometime in 2000 or so and that was an Athlon 1900+. Needless to say, that's now an antique (and it wasn't that good to begin with, but that was before I learned about hardware) so I am definitely not the best judge of AMD CPUs.

Collector might know more.

Spend the extra money on Win7 to get it separately. It's always good to have the OS disc itself, because something WILL go wrong at some point and you'll need to start over. In fact, you'll probably want to format and reinstall even if nothing goes wrong. After a while Windows gets really clogged up and needs to be cleaned out. I don't know if that holds true for Win7, but since an OS registry still exists, I can't imagine the OS doesn't get bogged down after a while.

As for the case... well, that's entirely up to you. In my opinion, here's what you should look for in a case: good airflow, easy access to parts, number of USB ports and room for new equipment (such as disc drives and hard drives) later on.

Some cases have a Firewire port -- I know Maia's case does. In my experience, there's absolutely no need to have that. Certain types of video equipment make use of it, but even those are limited. Firewire never took off, so if there is a port for that, make sure you're not paying extra for it.

BTW, you might be able to install an internal 3.5" floppy diskette if you can find one. Most diskette drives are now external and connected through USB. Few people feel the need to own a 3.5" diskette drive, but considering your affinity for older games, you might benefit from one.

Other than those suggestions (and barring my complete ignorance regarding AMD processors), I'd say you've got a very nice PC there.

I'd stay with the i3. The other board can also take an i5 or i7. A faster clock is almost meaningless these days. I'm not sure why you think that the CPU will be easier to upgrade. To change out the CPU on an Intel board is easy, now. Just twist each of the 4 pins holding the cooler 90 degrees and pop each out (requires very little force) to remove the heat sink. To remove the CPU itself, just unclip the lever, swing it back and the CPU is free. I think you will find the i3 more bang for the buck.

DeadPoolX wrote:Some cases have a Firewire port -- I know Maia's case does. In my experience, there's absolutely no need to have that. Certain types of video equipment make use of it, but even those are limited. Firewire never took off, so if there is a port for that, make sure you're not paying extra for it.

Depends on what you use your computer for. I know that audio interfaces for computer-based recording studios use Firewire connections for the faster information transfer and it doesn't split bandwidth between ports like USB does. In fact, Firewire is essential to high-class recording software/studios. You can also get Firewire external hard drives which work much faster for applications that require access speed like (again) recording software or video editing software. Firewire certainly has its application, just not as much in the casual world as USB does. For the everyday average Joe, USB suffices and is worth the drop in price. Firewire took off, just not for everyday devices.

Okay, but I doubt Rath would need it, so he shouldn't get a Firewire port. If his PC case has one, he needs to make sure he isn't getting charged more for it.

BTW, did anyone notice how we talk about Rath as if he isn't here?

If he was going to be working with video or audio on a professional level he would be getting higher end hardware, anyway. However, so many motherboards come with it these days it is a non issue. You are not going to pay more for a board with it, these days.

Yeah, my point was that he doesn't need it, but Firewire isn't the failed standard one would think it is.

OK, I've made my final decision re: parts...

Case: Antec Three Hundred Tower Gaming Case, No Power Supply
Processor: Intel Core i3 540 Processor
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-H55-UD3H ATX
Memory: Mushkin 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR3 KIT
Power Supply: Thermaltake Litepower 500W Power Supply
Graphics Card: XFX Radeon HD 5670 - 1GB 128-bit GDDR5
HDD: Samsung SpinPoint F3 - 1TB
Optical Drive: LG 22x DVD Burner
OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium, 64-Bit, OEM
$69 assembling fee

All for $810 AUS exactly, +26.72 shipping by road.

I've decided to take the Intel chip rather than the AMD chip. That necessitated getting a different motherboard too.

I asked the company and they said they'd install Windows 7 for me, and send me the physical DVD too.

The Antec case has good airflow, easy access to parts, number of USB ports and room for new equipment (such as disc drives and hard drives) later on. To see what Antec gives you in cases, look at this: http://www.antec.com/demo/ThreeHundred/ . Now tell me that the Antec 300 is not a good case.

Any more thoughts before I order?

It's a good processor and good chipset. The whole thing looks to be fairly upgradable for future needs. If you are OK with the price, I say go with it.