When Elder Scrolls copies D&D...

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Tawmis
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When Elder Scrolls copies D&D...

Post by Tawmis » Thu May 09, 2019 6:36 pm

... no, I mean COPIES... as in PLAGIARISM of a campaign...

Check this out.

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Re: When Elder Scrolls copies D&D...

Post by MusicallyInspired » Fri May 10, 2019 12:03 am

Uggh. It seems all big name companies inevitably resort to plagiarism because they're just so unoriginal. Like CBS ripping off the AGS adventure game Tardigrades for Star Trek Discovery.
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Re: When Elder Scrolls copies D&D...

Post by Tawmis » Fri May 10, 2019 2:47 am

MusicallyInspired wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 12:03 am
Uggh. It seems all big name companies inevitably resort to plagiarism because they're just so unoriginal. Like CBS ripping off the AGS adventure game Tardigrades for Star Trek Discovery.
The worse part is that The Black Road module is a part of Storm King's Thunder, which is not an OLD module - it's within the last 4 years. They'd have a much better chance sliding by with an OLD module - like when D&D first came out... likely most people aren't immediately going to recognize it, since there's been 4 editions of D&D since - and the system plays differently - so a good chance most people aren't playing those old, original modules...

I think you posted something about that Star Trek stuff here, right?

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Re: When Elder Scrolls copies D&D...

Post by MusicallyInspired » Fri May 10, 2019 8:15 am

I posted a video or two a couple months ago I believe. It's a whole lawsuit. This doesn't seem like it'll fare any better. It's sad to see good things fall so low like this.
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Re: When Elder Scrolls copies D&D...

Post by notbobsmith » Fri May 10, 2019 11:53 pm

MusicallyInspired wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 12:03 am
Uggh. It seems all big name companies inevitably resort to plagiarism because they're just so unoriginal. Like CBS ripping off the AGS adventure game Tardigrades for Star Trek Discovery.
I've read a little more about the tardigrade thing with DIS and it is possible that it may have been a coincidence. Some years ago, scientists found that tardigrades can survive dormant in the vacuum of space. As such, they are a possible organism that can travel interstellar distances to spread life to other worlds (panspermia). If you google "Tardigrades in space", you actually get a few pages of academic articles before you even get to a hit regarding DIS or the game. In fact, a few weeks ago, I read something about a meteor that entered Earth's atmosphere that may have originated outside our solar system. They speculated that a meteor could have carried organisms from another star system and mentioned tardigrades. So I'm just wondering if perhaps both the game designer and show writers were inspired by the same idea: as tardigrades being interstellar creatures.

As for some of the other similar elements, like the lead being an African-American woman and a gay couple being present. With increased interest in diversity, isn't this to be expected?

The Elder Scrolls thing however is pretty clear. They pretty much just copied and pasted the whole thing.

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Re: When Elder Scrolls copies D&D...

Post by MusicallyInspired » Sat May 11, 2019 12:12 am

None of that explains the characters, their roles, their arcs, and their relationships. They are identical. It's just the names that are different. And using a Tardigrade as a method of travel through space? That's no coincidence.

Anyway, I don't want to derail. We can continue that discussion in the actual Trek/Wars thread if we wanna.
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Re: When Elder Scrolls copies D&D...

Post by Collector » Sat May 11, 2019 11:25 am

there are so many similarities that it is hard to dismiss plagiarism.

https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2018/09 ... legations/
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Re: When Elder Scrolls copies D&D...

Post by Rath Darkblade » Sat May 11, 2019 7:56 pm

:shock: What on earth is going on here? I posted in this thread last night - where did it disappear to?

Anyway, my post said ... what did it say, now? Um - yes. It said something like this:

I've seen plagiarism before - heck, most of the news sources online seem to copy each other word for word! - but Bethesda's copy is close to WOTC's, it's almost embarrassing.

It's really too bad. If Bethesda wants to create their own adventure, why not - I don't know - write your own instead of copying someone else's?

I had other things that I wanted to say, but I can't remember them now... :(

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Re: When Elder Scrolls copies D&D...

Post by Tawmis » Sun May 12, 2019 2:59 am

Rath Darkblade wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 7:56 pm
I've seen plagiarism before - heck, most of the news sources online seem to copy each other word for word! - but Bethesda's copy is close to WOTC's, it's almost embarrassing.
Almost embarrassing? :D

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Re: When Elder Scrolls copies D&D...

Post by notbobsmith » Sun May 12, 2019 8:52 pm

Collector wrote:
Sat May 11, 2019 11:25 am
there are so many similarities that it is hard to dismiss plagiarism.

https://www.plagiarismtoday.com/2018/09 ... legations/
This is actually where I began to have my doubts about the lawsuit.

"It’s also worth noting that Tardigrades are real creatures. They are microscopic organisms that have become somewhat famous in recent years for their ability to survive in space. In fact, in 2008 scientists from the European Space Agency subjected tardigrades to space-like conditions and they suffered no ill-effects. Tardigrades resiliency combined with their alien appearance make them natural fodder for science fiction."

This is another article: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/1 ... rdigrades/

"It could simply be a coincidence. A pool of seven billion people makes unique ideas an unlikely prospect, and random events segregate seemingly non-randomly. While Discovery wasn’t announced until a year after Abdin announced his game, and not until nine months after Abdin renamed his project to “Tardigrades”, there’s every possibility that the show’s creative team had been working on the idea for years beforehand or simply came to it on their own. Indeed, put “tardigrade space travel” into Google and you’d perhaps expect to see Star Trek: Discovery dominating the results. But no. What you see instead is years and years of popular science articles about the seemingly invincible little Earth beasties, and their notorious ability to survive in a vacuum. And in space."


When I first heard about it, it seemed fairly clear to me. Using tardigrades for space travel seemed a pretty clear instance of plagarism. Why use a relatively obscure creature for a major plot point? But this does provide an answer for me. And once you explain the tardigrade plot point, most everything else falls through. The traitor subplot was the producers wanting to make Star Trek more dark. The African-American woman and gay characters were a result of the desire for more diversity. I have a hard time believing that a producer said "We have to make sure she looks like Natasha" when they were casting the role of Tilly. I'm not saying that plagarism didn't happen, but I now have serious doubts.

One other thing that I couldn't find an answer for. How well publicized were the plot points of the game? As far as I can tell the game hasn't been released and I could only find trailer videos that don't reveal much. So how did the producers learn of the other plot points (other than the tardigrade)? The only place I've been able to find them is in regards to the lawsuit.

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Re: When Elder Scrolls copies D&D...

Post by Collector » Mon May 13, 2019 2:52 pm

Using the infinite monkey theorem to dismiss charges of plagiarism is rather weak sauce. And the dismissal of the idea based on science of water bears in space is ludicrous. What is interesting about them as to space travel is they are uniquely immune to radiation, a real hazard to astronauts and may offer clues to solving this danger, nothing about a starship drive. The fact that the the game's name changed is a non factor, especially since it was changed before STD was even announced.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalz ... 7bff41b377

Add to that the whole tardigrade idea is completely out of left field for a so called Star Trek series and was simply slapped into an episode as an afterthought with the poor initial reception of the new series just seems like they were grasping at straws for ideas. The author of that article had a forgone conclusion and set about to prove it come hell or high water. Seems typical for Rock Paper Shotgun.
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Re: When Elder Scrolls copies D&D...

Post by MusicallyInspired » Mon May 13, 2019 7:36 pm

I knew for years about "Water Bears" and their ability to survive in either of the extreme temperatures and in the vacuum of space. It's not new at all.
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Re: When Elder Scrolls copies D&D...

Post by Collector » Mon May 13, 2019 9:23 pm

This, but it is stretch to go from robust to a source of interstellar travel. To have two sources contriving something so ludicrous is a bridge too far for me to dismiss as mere coincidence. Not saying it is impossible, just highly unlikely.
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Re: When Elder Scrolls copies D&D...

Post by MusicallyInspired » Mon May 13, 2019 10:29 pm

Yup.
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Re: When Elder Scrolls copies D&D...

Post by Rath Darkblade » Fri May 17, 2019 9:34 pm

I looked up "water bears" and found a picture of tiny micro-organisms that look a little like ticks. Why on earth are they called "water bears"? *curious*

Anyway, why do these water bears have anything to do with the WOTC vs. Bethesda lawsuit? I don't get it.

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