New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby adeyke » Sat Aug 16, 2014 3:12 pm

I'm with Rath.

The King's Quest games certainly set some important landmarks. If you're looking at the history of video games (and, in particular, of adventure games), King's Quest is sure to get a mention. Things like showing an animated character in a "3D" world, high-quality music, and voice acting are something we now take for granted, and we'd still have them today even if King's Quest never existed. Maybe we saw them sooner than we would have otherwise, but I think it's mostly about those games being made at the time that the technology to make them became available.

As for King Graham, the character, he's pretty unremarkable. He stars in only three games (1, 2, and 5), and none of them is particularly epic. I don't think anyone can reasonably say that King Graham was such a great adventurer that, in 24 years since he retired, his record hasn't been beat.

Of course, if the blurb is in-universe, it's fine. That is, if we're just looking at adventurers in the King's Quest franchise (rather than in all of video games), King Graham certainly ranks highly.
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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby Ryno » Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:47 pm

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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby Expack3 » Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:00 pm

Ryno wrote:http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2014/08/16/sierra-s-new-king-s-quest-won-t-be-a-point-and-click-adventure.aspx

An important note on this from the developers on that in response to a concerned Internet-goer:
Matt Korba wrote:We have your best interest at heart, KQ is my favorite game series of all time and we think everyone will be pleasantly surprised when we get to reveal more. We are making an adventure game, that article was a bit misleading. For the most recent info you can always follow @theoddgentlemen on twitter
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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby Datadog » Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:10 pm

Collector wrote:
Rath Darkblade wrote:So it is. However, I have to take exception to Sierra calling King Graham "the greatest adventurer to ever live". ;)

Given the history and significance of the series (and not just to Sierra) that statement is not so outrageous.


I agree. Graham is sort of the Mickey Mouse or Super Mario of adventure gaming. His iconic look and family-friendly personality make him a very accessible character to newcomers. To call him the greatest would be an exaggeration to anyone who prefers a more hardened or comic edge to their heroes, but for who he is, I can see Graham as the poster-boy of the genre.
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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby DeadPoolX » Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:54 am

I'm not surprised that the new KQ won't be a traditional point-and-click Adventure. It's already been stated that the game will be available for the consoles (in addition to the PC), so it stands to reason that they're going to design the game in such a manner that it'll work well with both gamepads and a keyboard/mouse setup.

The P&C interface is incredibly clunky when using a gamepad. It's been done before and every time it's awkward at best, and at worst, it just doesn't work.

I have a feeling they're going to go with a gameplay and interface style that's more like Dreamfall, or to use an older example, Grim Fandango.

I know some people will hate it (or at least, hate the idea of it not being P&C) but this seems like the best -- and most likely -- solution for the game to work well on multiple platforms.

Oh and I'm sure most of you here know I vastly prefer PC gaming, so I'm not suggesting that consoles take precedence. In most cases, I'd say "screw the consoles," but this situation is different. It's important that KQ does well, as it's success or failure will set Activision's tone for handling Sierra and future Adventure games.
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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby adeyke » Sun Aug 17, 2014 5:24 am

The difference is the Mario and Mickey Mouse were actively used as mascots for their respective brands for many years (up until the present). Mario has appeared in around 200 games. If you watched children's entertainment or played Nintendo games, it's basically inevitable that you'd become familiar with Mickey Mouse or Mario, respectively.

King Graham isn't like that. Almost all exposure to Graham would come from playing his three games (or in the Crazy Nick's game, which is something only someone invested in the King's Quest franchise would see). He did have some other appearances (as easter eggs or in the Hoyle games), but there he was treated as just one Sierra character among many.

Graham's claim to fame is mainly a historical one. KQ1 is a significant game, and Graham starred in it. He just doesn't have any ongoing cultural relevance. It's like if Nintendo had stopped after Super Mario Bros. and had Disney had stopped after Steamboat Willie.
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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby Datadog » Sun Aug 17, 2014 6:07 pm

Graham is absolutely like that, it's just on a much more smaller scale. Had the popularity of adventure gaming ever grown into Disneyesque proportions, Graham would have likely taken on that mascot role (or at least his hat would have appeared in a lot more corporate branding) and anyone who played adventure games would know who he is, regardless of playing his three games or seeing his cameos. Likewise, he carries a signature appearance and market-friendly 'everyman' persona that even non-adventure gamers can relate to. Even his historical claim to fame isn't too different from Mickey Mouse who largely owes his popularity to "Steamboat Willie", "Fantasia", and his collection of technological ground-breaking shorts. While Mickey has gone on to star in hundreds of other shorts, his ongoing relevance still attests to his early years because that's where his relevance is still strongest. On a smaller scale, King's Quest shares that same timeless quality with Graham at the heart of it.
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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby adeyke » Sun Aug 17, 2014 7:13 pm

We could imagine an alternative timeline where Sierra remained a dominant force in gaming, and where King's Quest remained their flagship series, and where that series had remained focused on Graham. In that timeline, King Graham could have become a mascot and could even have become a household name even for people who haven't actually played those games. That's not the reality we're living in, though. Here, Graham is only relevant to people who played Sierra adventure games in the late 80s to early 90s. And even then, it's not a given (even fans of Sierra adventure games of the late 80s to early 90s might just play the other series, and even fans of King's Quest might play the games that don't star him).

Are you just saying that you'd prefer that we live in that timeline and that Graham deserves to be famous, or are you saying that he actually is famous?
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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby Tawmis » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:10 am

Today, he's not famous.
But to those who were around when adventure games started, I'd say he was famous.
Everyone, back then, knew King's Quest.
Didn't matter if it was I, II, III, IV, V, VI, or VII.
Back then, you said King's Quest to another computer geek, and they definitely knew it.

King's Quest, and Sierra in general, has been out of the spotlight for - what? - 20 or so years? Yeah we have gotten some "re-releases" of the old games.

But today's kids? If it's not super shiny and brainless shooting (Gears of War, for example - and I love me some Gears of War), or jumping around (Assassin's Creed, God of War), then most kids today don't care. Most kids have little respect for the past. (Or little respect in general).

So these days? Is Graham famous? No. But he was.
Same as President Regan. He was pretty popular back in the day when he was president. But ask a kid who President Reagan was, or what he did as a president - or what he did before he became president (an actor), these kids will, for the most part, have no clue.
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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby Rath Darkblade » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:41 am

Tawmis wrote:Today, he's not famous.
But to those who were around when adventure games started, I'd say he was famous.
Everyone, back then, knew King's Quest.
Didn't matter if it was I, II, III, IV, V, VI, or VII.
Back then, you said King's Quest to another computer geek, and they definitely knew it.

King's Quest, and Sierra in general, has been out of the spotlight for - what? - 20 or so years? Yeah we have gotten some "re-releases" of the old games.

But today's kids? If it's not super shiny and brainless shooting (Gears of War, for example - and I love me some Gears of War), or jumping around (Assassin's Creed, God of War), then most kids today don't care. Most kids have little respect for the past. (Or little respect in general).

So these days? Is Graham famous? No. But he was.
Same as President Reagan. He was pretty popular back in the day when he was president. But ask a kid who President Reagan was, or what he did as a president - or what he did before he became president (an actor), these kids will, for the most part, have no clue.


"Mr Gorbachev - tear down this wall!" ;)

Yeah, I remember Reagan, and I was only 4 when he became President. I don't remember what he did - I was only a kid at the time - but I certainly read about him and I know what he did. Star Wars, the Evil Empire, and all that.

King Graham is a little similar to me, I agree. I haven't played the KQ series (apart from KQ5), so I don't know what Graham did. But I can always look him up and read about his adventures. ;)

(By the way - sorry, but KQ5 (and particularly Cedric) ruined the whole KQ experience for me). :(
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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby BBP » Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:58 am

He defeated a yeti with a pie. Of course he's the greatest adventurer ever!

What doesn't help Graham's course is that he wasn't in KQ7 at all, not even mentioned. His character build-up before then is unfortunately not very strong - Alexander and Rosella came out better in KQs 3 and 4 than Graham ever did. Plus he was voiced by an amateur - although a good amateur Mandel doesn't match the pure character that Leisure Suit Larry got through the magnificent styling of Jan Rabson, or the personality that oozes of Gabriel Knight even in the first "ugh" he says when he enters shop in Ch 1. Besides Graham never got that much speaking in the original KQs, and with KQ5 as a player I did my best not to listen to the voices at all. Ask me "describe Graham's character", and I'm a big question mark.

Rath - I know how you feel, but please please please do yourself a favour and play KQ6!!
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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby Datadog » Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:41 pm

adeyke wrote:Are you just saying that you'd prefer that we live in that timeline and that Graham deserves to be famous, or are you saying that he actually is famous?


He deserves to be famous and is famous in his own respects (I work with a lot of different gamers and am often surprised at how often people describe KQ as a huge part of their childhoods), but the comparisons I'm drawing are on the scale of the popularity of adventure games. I didn't say he was literally a major trending personality, but in the realm of adventure gaming, his historical relevance, marketing design and personality all share aspects with similar "pioneer" characters from different franchises.

There are more popular characters in adventure gaming (Roger Wilco and Guybrush Threepwood come up a lot more often in discussion), but when the designers of the new KQ game regard Graham as one of adventure's greatest heroes, I can understand where they're coming from and how he may fit into the head of the adventure game "pantheon", so to speak.

Same as President Reagan. He was pretty popular back in the day when he was president. But ask a kid who President Reagan was, or what he did as a president - or what he did before he became president (an actor), these kids will, for the most part, have no clue.


Not quite who'd I'd compare Graham to, but I like the analogy. :lol: Kind of like how the Roosevelt most kids are familiar with is the one who rode a moose to the moon and wrestled bears with his moustache instead of FDR.
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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby Tawmis » Mon Aug 18, 2014 6:49 pm

Datadog wrote:
Same as President Reagan. He was pretty popular back in the day when he was president. But ask a kid who President Reagan was, or what he did as a president - or what he did before he became president (an actor), these kids will, for the most part, have no clue.

Not quite who'd I'd compare Graham to, but I like the analogy. :lol: Kind of like how the Roosevelt most kids are familiar with is the one who rode a moose to the moon and wrestled bears with his moustache instead of FDR.


Well I picked Reagan, because he was the president during the 80's {81 to 89} (same time Graham was walking around, going into witches caves, and watching Batmobiles drive out of them, looking for golden eggs, mirrors, garlic and an assortment of other weird things that all fit in his tiny pockets!). I didn't want to go too far back with the analogies. :)
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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby audiodane » Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:25 pm

Whoa!!!! I was totally unaware of this until just checking the forums here today.. this is so cool! I understand cautious optimism and all, but I'm certainly excited. And I forget who said it (I didnt' hit "quote"), but yes, I suspect this forum will begin getting more traffic again soon.. :)

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I'm now known as "wowdane"


Can I ask where the tag comes from? just curious.. from one ..dane to another!

..dane
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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby DeadPoolX » Wed Aug 20, 2014 3:30 pm

audiodane wrote:Whoa!!!! I was totally unaware of this until just checking the forums here today.. this is so cool! I understand cautious optimism and all, but I'm certainly excited. And I forget who said it (I didnt' hit "quote"), but yes, I suspect this forum will begin getting more traffic again soon.. :)

misslilo wrote:Hey guys!! Long time no see :)
I'm now known as "wowdane"


Can I ask where the tag comes from? just curious.. from one ..dane to another!

..dane

I think she's from Denmark.
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