New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby Expack3 » Sun Aug 10, 2014 7:12 pm

Collector wrote:I agree that QfG is primarily an adventure with RPG elements. However, the hero has run his course. Remember that it was originally intended to be just a trilogy. The Coles felt that the hero was not quite ready for the final chapter at the end of 2, so the series was extended to four. Five only happened because of fan demand.The fifth one feels sort of tacked onto the series rather than truly part of it, even if it felt more of a QfG game than MoE did a KQ.

I agree that the Hero of QfG has run his course. However, what I intended by my earlier statement (yeah obscure writing!) was that I'd love to see the original QfG quadrilogy remade into 3D and the game's mechanics sensibly expanded to take advantage of the third dimension. However, as DeadPoolX astutely observed, if the new Sierra were to develop new QfG-style games, they'd get compared to Skyrim, Dragon Age, and other pure-RPGs which, by virtue of being made after major advances in Western RPGs, are more technically-advanced and arguably superior in that regard. Personally, I'm not sure how this could be averted - even downplaying the RPG aspects for the Adventure game aspects might not do well, given as the RPG aspects are AFAIK tightly integrated with the Adventure aspects (i.e. some puzzle solutions can't be completed until you've leveled up certain skills or attributes).
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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby Collector » Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:12 pm

I would be OK with HD remakes of the QfG games as well as new QfG style games, just not with the original hero or stories. I would have no problem with any new games taking place in Gloriana. As to if it would be compared to modern RPGs is another thing and probably inevitable, but it would be nice to get adventure/RPG hybrids that were primarily adventures, just like the QfGs.

Some puzzles being unsolvable until a skill level is not that much different than the QfGs. Remember all of the grinding that many do just to get your stats up just to be able perform some task. Getting the healers ring in QfG1 required you to either develop your climbing skill or your rock throwing skill. I forget, did QfG1 have a fetch spell? And is this really that different than adventures in general in that you may not even be aware of a given puzzle until you have reached a certain point in the progress of a game?

Anyway, the success of any of these potential games is largely going to be dependent large enough budgets to pull them off properly. I am afraid the Hero-U will suffer from an inadequate budget. They might not need to be on the level of, say a Skyrim, but they should be at least on the level of a Syberia.
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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby Collector » Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:27 pm

Oh, also I was reading some of the comments on the YouTube logo video, and many of the people bothering to post were demanding new Crash or Fear games. One of the linked articles originally started out calling Sierra a company best known for a few of the games published under the Sierra name a decade ago. The writer must have been pretty young to not realize just how foundational that Sierra was in the development of the industry.
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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby Rath Darkblade » Mon Aug 11, 2014 7:34 am

Collector wrote:Some puzzles being unsolvable until a skill level is not that much different than the QfGs. Remember all of the grinding that many do just to get your stats up just to be able perform some task. Getting the healer's ring in QfG1 required you to either develop your climbing skill or your rock throwing skill. I forget, did QfG1 have a fetch spell? And is this really that different than adventures in general in that you may not even be aware of a given puzzle until you have reached a certain point in the progress of a game?


Yes, QfG1 certainly did have a fetch spell. Aside from the healer's ring, you used it to fetch the seed of the spitting sporea (i.e. those flowers that spit out a seed), and possibly other things as well. ;)

Collector wrote:Anyway, the success of any of these potential games is largely going to be dependent large enough budgets to pull them off properly. I am afraid the Hero-U will suffer from an inadequate budget. They might not need to be on the level of, say a Skyrim, but they should be at least on the level of a Syberia.


Hmm... I don't expect Hero-U to be on the level of something like Skyrim or Dragon Age. I'm happy with anything that the Coles are working on - but hey, I certainly remember the good ol' days of 16-bit and even 8-bit graphics (does anyone remember this game?). ;) Whatever the Coles are doing, I'm sure it will be good. :)

Collector wrote:Oh, also I was reading some of the comments on the YouTube logo video, and many of the people bothering to post were demanding new Crash or Fear games. One of the linked articles originally started out calling Sierra a company best known for a few of the games published under the Sierra name a decade ago. The writer must have been pretty young to not realize just how foundational that Sierra was in the development of the industry.


Hmm... what do you mean by new Crash or Fear games? I don't remember any of those, but then I haven't paid much attention to the Sierra brand since the late 1990s (ever since they stopped making adventure games, coincidentally enough).
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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby Rudy » Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:11 am

Collector wrote:Oh, also I was reading some of the comments on the YouTube logo video, and many of the people bothering to post were demanding new Crash or Fear games. One of the linked articles originally started out calling Sierra a company best known for a few of the games published under the Sierra name a decade ago. The writer must have been pretty young to not realize just how foundational that Sierra was in the development of the industry.


True that. Many people, probably too young to know the real Sierra, are hoping for another F.E.A.R. or other Vivendi sequels (Crash, Evil Genius, N.O.L.F.,...) Not only don't they know the roots of Sierra, they also don't know who the current IP owners of those franchises are. F.E.A.R., World In Conflict, Evil Genius, Larry, Tribes, The Incredible Machine and several other IPs were sold from Activision's portfolio years ago.
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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby Tawmis » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:34 pm

EightBitJoe wrote:
Tawmis wrote:What could it mean?

It means Sierra is joining the cache of zombie brands, IP in different hands to be mutilated and exploited by those who had no involvement in its creation. Whatever the hell they do, you won't recognize it as what we know an adventure game to be. The original talent that made Sierra Online magic -- that cadre of beautifully mismatched genius misfits giving their soul to blaze a trail -- will have nothing to do with it.
It's inconsequential big bad meanie Activision owns the IP. (Ironically, the company is, itself, a zombie brand). The situation would be no different if it were EA or Sony. You're getting an emotional buzz over an empty name, a nostalgic beacon erected by suits who have no clue what they own, that has tenuous ties to its former self.
Send up fireworks and open the champaign when the press release goes out touting that Scott Murphy, Mark Crowe, Al Lowe, Josh Mandel, Jim Walls, The Coles, et. al. have all been hired. And I have weighty doubts that would ever happen.
But hey, yay. Let's prop Sierra right next to Commodore and Polaroid at the Bar of the Living Dead.


I can see why you would not be optimistic. It's actually the safest route, considering the past history of "new" Sierra games that came out - and things like Magna Cum Laude or Box Office Bust, for LSL games. If the Java code is to be believed, and there is a new King's Quest in the works, there's a very good chance that Roberta will not be involved (since her and her husband are sailing around the world), which leaves the fear that it might be something like King's Quest VIII (or, as some of us call it "Mask of Eternity" - not King's Quest VIII).

So there is indeed, perhaps good reason to not be optimistic. That said, I will say, just like when LSL: MCL was announced, I remained optimistic back then, even though Al Lowe was not involved with the creation of the game. I was proven wrong (I know some folks like LSL:MCL, but I strongly disliked it - well, down right hated it - because it lacked the subtly of previous LSL games, and just came out as an extremely crass and over the top sexualized game).

And while, Scott Murphy, Mark Crowe, Al Lowe, Josh Mandel, Jim Walls, The Coles, the Williams, Christy Marx, etc etc - may not be working on these games, as you said. That doesn't mean there aren't still good people, with good hearts, and perhaps great imagination still working there, that may be able to produce an adventure game (say, like King's Quest). I think the recent success of adventure game kickstarters (LSL Reloaded, Hero-U, SpaceVenture, Quest for Infamy, and probably dozens of others I don't even know about), have made Activision want to return to the idea of doing "Adventure" games while this genre is hot and cash in on folks like me.
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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby Tawmis » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:36 pm

Side note, I used my LSL twitter account about the Sierra logo and what it means - with a link to this thread - and it's been retweeted a few times. Even posted a second one, to encourage more traffic. :)
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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby Collector » Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:29 pm

Small nit pick, but it was in the site's main.js. In other words, Javascript, not Java (usually contained inside of '*.jar' files), two completely different things. Java is a full blown object oriented language that relies on the Java runtime to be installed on the user's PC. It was developed buy Sun Microsystems for cross platform code. Java is often used for applications where developers need cross platform compatibility, but don't want to have to port and compile for each targeted platform.

Javascript was originally developed by Brendan Eich for Netscape for scripting inside of webpages. It has since expanded beyond its original intent and is used in many more things than just browsers, such as PDF documents. It has become a very versatile scripting language.

I only bring this up because I am seeing this mistake repeated over and over about this script because someone on Facebook didn't know better.
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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby DeadPoolX » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:45 pm

Rath Darkblade wrote:Hmm... I don't expect Hero-U to be on the level of something like Skyrim or Dragon Age. I'm happy with anything that the Coles are working on - but hey, I certainly remember the good ol' days of 16-bit and even 8-bit graphics (does anyone remember this game?). ;) Whatever the Coles are doing, I'm sure it will be good. :)

My main issue with Hero-U (aside from the fact it's taking them forever to produce anything even remotely meaningful) is that they changed the gameplay and design from what they were showing everyone on the Kickstarter. I contributed to their project based on what I was being told the game would be like and somewhere along the way, the Coles decided to change it up.

If it wouldn't be more trouble than it's worth, I'd demand my money back. It's not like we're going to see Hero-U within the next decade anyway if they keep plodding along at their current pace, so their project doesn't really mean much to me anymore.

Oh and yes, I remember the basketball game in your link. I played that a bunch on the Apple II.

Collector wrote:Oh, also I was reading some of the comments on the YouTube logo video, and many of the people bothering to post were demanding new Crash or Fear games. One of the linked articles originally started out calling Sierra a company best known for a few of the games published under the Sierra name a decade ago. The writer must have been pretty young to not realize just how foundational that Sierra was in the development of the industry.

Your mistake was to read the comments posted in response to a YouTube video. More often than not, anything written there is so rude and so blindingly moronic than it makes the nitwits on Facebook look civil and intelligent.

Honestly, it's not surprising that many would think of non-Adventure games published by Sierra, instead of the classic titles that created the company.

Unless you were born, at minimum, in the late 1970s or early 1980s, and had a family who could not only afford computers (which were, proportionally speaking, much more expensive back then) and were interested in them, your gaming experiences would've most likely been limited to consoles or arcade machines.

Rudy wrote:True that. Many people, probably too young to know the real Sierra, are hoping for another F.E.A.R. or other Vivendi sequels (Crash, Evil Genius, N.O.L.F.,...) Not only don't they know the roots of Sierra, they also don't know who the current IP owners of those franchises are. F.E.A.R., World In Conflict, Evil Genius, Larry, Tribes, The Incredible Machine and several other IPs were sold from Activision's portfolio years ago.

Maybe, but it's not entirely their fault.

For most of gaming history, you couldn't find old games easily. If stores didn't carry them, you were screwed. Today that's not nearly as big of an issue, but it's exceedingly difficult to get modern gamers to play titles that are blocky, clunky, and use 16 or 256 colors.

Even as someone who started with KQ1 and played all the original Sierra games when they were new, I have trouble going back to the old games. The antiquated visuals hurt to look at (sorry guys, nostalgia only goes so far) and there are so many other choices available now, there's very little reason for me to go back and play those old games over, especially since there's virtually no replay value to be found in most Adventure games.

Oddly enough, I think Text Adventures (or Interactive Fiction, whichever you prefer) have aged the best. They were text back then and they're still text now. Having to rely on descriptions and imagination for visuals removes the "Oh my god, those graphics make my eyes bleed!" factor.

For example, I never played Text Adventures. However, Maia had and she particularly liked the Zork games. She and I have been playing the original Zork together and we're enjoying it. Maia's even been making maps using graph paper, something I haven't seen done since the 80s. :P

Rath Darkblade wrote:Hmm... what do you mean by new Crash or Fear games? I don't remember any of those, but then I haven't paid much attention to the Sierra brand since the late 1990s (ever since they stopped making adventure games, coincidentally enough).

Games there weren't developed by Sierra, but rather those that were published by them. The Crash Bandicoot and F.E.A.R. series are two such examples, and were quite popular.

I enjoyed F.E.A.R. a lot, but the sequels sucked, mostly because they were consolized, whereas the original game was built for PC gaming.

Collector wrote:Small nit pick, but it was in the site's main.js. In other words, Javascript, not Java (usually contained inside of '*.jar' files), two completely different things.

[...]

I only bring this up because I am seeing this mistake repeated over and over about this script because someone on Facebook didn't know better.

Collector, please, stop reading YouTube comments! Your IQ drops every time you read a comment there (or at least it feels like it does for me if I read any of them).
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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby Collector » Mon Aug 11, 2014 5:58 pm

I did not encounter that in the YouTube comments, but from various message boards and Facebook groups I frequent. I almost never read the YouTube comments, but wanted to get a feel for the reception of the re-opening of the website. There are several sites that I avoid the comment section, such as Yahoo News. I don't doubt that 95% of the commenters there are in the double digit IQ range.
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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby Tawmis » Mon Aug 11, 2014 8:18 pm

Collector wrote:Small nit pick, but it was in the site's main.js. In other words, Javascript, not Java (usually contained inside of '*.jar' files), two completely different things. Java is a full blown object oriented language that relies on the Java runtime to be installed on the user's PC. It was developed buy Sun Microsystems for cross platform code. Java is often used for applications where developers need cross platform compatibility, but don't want to have to port and compile for each targeted platform.

Javascript was originally developed by Brendan Eich for Netscape for scripting inside of webpages. It has since expanded beyond its original intent and is used in many more things than just browsers, such as PDF documents. It has become a very versatile scripting language.

I only bring this up because I am seeing this mistake repeated over and over about this script because someone on Facebook didn't know better.


I make that very same mistake, quite frequently, myself, I admit.
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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby Expack3 » Tue Aug 12, 2014 11:56 am

It's for real!

EDIT: Some actual details from the linked article:

  • Sierra is now known as Sierra Games.
  • Sierra Games' goal is to find and task "talented indie developers working on their own amazing projects" who are "passionate about working on great Sierra IP" to develop new games in various classic Sierra series.
  • Announced games: "re-imagined" King's Quest by The Odd Gentlemen, due out 2015 for Steam, PSN and XBOX Live, and Geometry Wars 3 by Lucid Games.

EDIT2: Ninja'd by Tawmis!
Last edited by Expack3 on Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby Tawmis » Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:12 pm

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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby Collector » Tue Aug 12, 2014 2:09 pm

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Re: New "Sierra" intro at Sierra.com...

Postby Tawmis » Tue Aug 12, 2014 6:58 pm

While I am excited about this whole idea of Sierra doing a new King's Quest, holy #$%^ am I sick and tired of seeing the same posts, threads, etc on the thousand of Sierra related FB pages. Geezuz #*$&%ing Savior.
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